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| totziens |
 Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:58 am Post subject: Definition of "independent" |
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Joined: 27 Feb 2005
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Location: Petaling Kurang Berjaya
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This topic has been raised up debated for decades.....
This is supposed to be a continuation of a thread in Gig Guide....
It's just my personal opinion lah....as I have stated. The opinion is solely mine. It's not a defined term like a "car" - a car have wheels, engine, etc.
Labels may have independent labels and major labels. I have never dealed with major labels but based on what I hear, I don't fancy them. I don't even bother to approach them if I have any project in my mind. I am sure the major label will talk about money first.
The term independent could refer to anything such as:
1. independant to write the music whatever way they want. The rest will be in charged by label.
2. independently produce the CD by the band themselves but send the CD to major label for distribution.
3. sign the band to an independent label. How the indie label do their stuff is different in every label. The rest is history.
4. independant to write music, independent in production, independent in distribution...etc. This one I would call it a "totally independent band" unlike the rest above.
I don't know all independent labels. Based on my experience when I have to dealed with some for the podcasting stuff I've done for Boleh Rojak Pod. Some independent label acts similar to major labels too - u ask for something...they'll talk about $$ first.
Usually the really small independent labels are the ones easier to deal with. They're more willing to coorperate in any projects and they're not so arrogant. In other word, I love them and willing to help them.
Some people may argue the term "indie" which is originated from "independent" no longer means independent. It has turned into a genre.....a type of music. This one I am confused about it myself....I hate this idea in fact but that's the way I describe the music style so that people can understand what I mean.
Other terms such as "alternative" is equally confusing. To me, alternative may include those African tribal music, country, folk, those music from Tibet, etc. i.e. those music played by British deejay Andy Kershaw. It's anything alternative to the mainstream music.
To me, music is not a dead element. It will grow. Rap and even techno used to be an alternative in the early days. They have become mainstream these days (they sucks now but I used to love them when they first emerged).
I better stop now....I am getting confused too....hehehe....
Last edited by totziens on Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| HuntressM00n |
| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:27 am Post subject: |
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yes you are confusing yourself.
First thing first, What is independant?
Let me paint you a synopsis.
Your mom takes you out to town on a bus, but you pay for the tickets.
or
Your mom tells you which bus to take to town and you are on your own.
Which of these synopsis is independant?
The answer is both, because you are using your own money, from allowances or part time jobs.
Independant meaning do it by yourself.
so with some bands under a label claims to be independant, then those bands without a label call it DIY?
Do you see the difference?
Independant= DO IT YOURSELF, short for DIY.
With the music industry, a band can only be called independant if they PRINT, PRODUCE and DISTRIBUTE their CD and still be tied under an independant label who then promotes them.
A band that has all the above done by the LABEL company are not independant.
They are under a label.
It does not mean whether you can freely do your music but still have all your expenses paid by the label is an independant band.
A label company cannot let that happened or else there will be a penalty.
Whats the use of the label company investing money in you so, that you can call yourself independant?
that spells charity indeed.
so my Question is why, some bands call themself independant, when they have the label company paying for everything and all the band do is to make music?
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| GryMlock |
| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| HuntressM00n |
| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:39 am Post subject: |
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so my Question is why, some bands call themself independant, when they have the label company paying for everything and all the band do is to make music?
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| totziens |
| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 27 Feb 2005
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Should invite Joe Kidd the historian of underground to answer all these....I cannot answer u as I dun have the answer. hehe...
I've written everything that is based on my own opinion and maybe slightly influenced by something that I read. |
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| HuntressM00n |
| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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i close my case...
you have already answered based on your opinions.
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"Thus let my enemy's blood be spilled
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| GryMlock |
| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| totziens |
| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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I think the initial "independant" started by those DIY punks...maybe I am wrong....it may go all the way back to the 50s or 60s....I am not sure.
Those days in the 50s, 60s, 70s...DIY was definitely tougher than today with poor quality....there was no such thing as PC or CD-R then.....I really salute them. At least the sound quality would have improved in the late 70s, 80s or even 90s (before CD-R was affordable) although cassettes were used. Need to get Joe Kidd to write an article about this...perhaps he got it somewhere already if I am not mistaken. |
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| Jailhouserock |
| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe because the word 'independent' sounds cool to certain people.
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| GryMlock |
| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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yeah.. one of the old indie label I know is SST (ehem Black Flag). but those days.. bands that play other kind of music will find it hard to get their stuffs in music store. indie labels are their solution. Eventhough not having the same budget as the Majors.. they still managed to get their releases out on music store.
Lemang Music, Laguna Records, Stuck Music.. to me.. these people are independent as f**k. It's not fair to say..just because a band is signed... they cannot be called independent. Some labels are just a bunch of friends pooling their resources together and working to make things happen for them.
as far as my stand on the artists here on i-bands. as long as they do their own music and not signed with the Majors.. they're indies.
There are also labels known as "Fake Indies". these are labels owned and funded by Majors but potraying to be indies. I don't think there are any of em here in Malaysia. But these are the things that we should be more concern about rather than questioning our friends wether they're truly 100% indies by definition or not.
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| silbi |
| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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who cares if you're independent or not? as long as you can play and make good music, preferably live...then all these 'labels' should not be a hinderance factor to restrict your musical creativity...
back in the uk in the 90s, if you read a lot of NMEs or Melody Maker, indie bands were normally pointed to good old guitar driven pop bands with catchy tunes...like Elastica, Menswear, Sleeper...these bands werent really self funded and their werent really released from major labels...so they didnt really fit into the earlier definition of iindependent' here.
But ppl accepted them as indie bands nonetheless...i think those days, it was more of the way they sound to some extent...
but since i always hate term all these genre-label sh*t, esp the current 'emo' label, to me rock music is just rock music...
hey, wtf am i babbling here?? pls ignore me... |
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| HuntressM00n |
| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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We are in Malaysia, lets not confuse ourselves
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| totziens |
| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Let me give u an example of the stuff I am doing....and tell me whether this is "independent" or not although I don't really care about it.
I have been gathering bands/solo artists regardless of genre to supply their songs to me to make a compilation. I am not a record label (although I initially thought of creating one). I don't even care whether whether there is any corporate supporting this. If I can get an indie label or even friends interested in the final product and willing to help financing it.... fine! If I don't get it, I'll do it alone.
Can you still call the bands/singers participating in the compilation as independent?
Just like what Jailhouserock mentioned..."Maybe because the word 'independent' sounds cool to certain people". In reality nobody cares about it (including myself and all the bands/singers). The most important fact is I love their songs good enough to be in the compilation....that's all.
I hate being too genre concious and too specific about this kind of stuff. Music is after all music. Music is a very complex entity in the modern world. Believe it or not I heard a metal band incorporated opera-singing vocal into their music....sounds a bit gothic to me.
I like Pete Teo, Prefab Sprout, Fairground Attraction, Lo, Deacon Blue, Sepultura, etc. I don't even bother about the genre/independence. They're just music I love....not because they have pretty face or sex appeal as in typical commercial music scene. |
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| HuntressM00n |
| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Complilation and Label is a big difference.
why so stress? chill la.. this is debate, its fun.
jangan sampai heart attack plak tu
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"Thus let my enemy's blood be spilled
like water and sink into the earth."
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| totziens |
| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Well, some indie labels are set up by people like me who loves music....so sometimes there is no difference. But I definitely agree with u that compilation and label is a big difference - referring to those who set up the label for the sake of solely making money.
No heart attack...dun worry. I am enjoying this debate as well 
I was worried that you would take it personally as an attack or what....next time I see u...u'll start to whack me with your handbag....hahahaha (just kidding)
It's a healthy debate....no offence... |
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