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| thirdmantra |
 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:14 pm Post subject: JAZZZ....hmm...wer to start?? |
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Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 28
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Hi guys n gals,
i've always wanted to play jazz guitar tunes...but i dunno wer to start. Can anyone recommend me sum cooool jazz guitarists albums/EP? do i have to learn the jazz/blue scales to start? errr....boringlar...i usually listen to songs 1st then only play n learn... |
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| omarjamaludin |
| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 2615
Location: Tmn Melawati
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hehe..dude try to listen to some old school stuff first la
like wes montogomery ..download these tracks:
cotton tail
d-natural blues
besame mucho
four on six
and look for other tracks that came from the albums that these tracks are from..
i dunno jazz that much but i think the chord voicings is pretty important..like use alot minor 7th , major 7th..i think for goreng wise you can easily get away with major scale if applied correctly on these chords changes...also jazz guitar tunes got that warm fat clean sound becos back in the days guitarist like wes they were trying to emulate the sound of saxonphone and other brass intruments...
bila you dah tere then you teach me plak orait? haha that's my 2 cents hehe
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| calibre2001 |
| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 59
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| I think you should study the blues first. |
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| fReqZz |
| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 1351
Location: Mont Kiara
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yeah.. a reckon the blues first.. jazz is much more complex... thats y they call it the virtuoso's sound..
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| Otaizam |
| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 478
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jazz uses mostly choramtic scale... i know the scale but dont know how to apply.
huh.... another thing is the chord prgression. memang pening.
another thing. strumming and picking.... must put more feel and soul... smooth, more smooth.. more smoothe...
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| thirdmantra |
| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:25 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 28
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WOW!! Thx a lot guys.....thx omar! will dwnload the songs 1st...more old skool the better..i like listen to "black" jazz...we jsut share experience lar  so...wes gontomomery use wat kind in those songs u recommend? so i can teliti the songs more...thx
freqqz,otai....what is chromatic n virtuoso scale?
blues huh? means i got2 listen stuff likee bb king, clapton 1st..hmm....hendrix's RED HOUSE is blues rite?i kind of like dat song...so probably i can start on that? |
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| fReqZz |
| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 1351
Location: Mont Kiara
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| calibre2001 |
| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:39 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 59
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Wes uses a lot of bluesy phrasings, sort of taking the Charlie Christian style to a higher level. Its swingy, catchy and sometimes cute.
Learn straight blues first (SRV, Albert K, Robert Johnson etc) to develop a thorough understanding of I-IV-V chord progression, straight blues licks, blues phrasing and chord voicings.
Then proceed to more swing/jazz oriented blues players (T-Bone Walker, Robben Ford, Johnny Guitar Watson, Duke Robbilard, Little Charlie, Charlie Christian) to make your blues 'swing'. You will realise that bending is used sparingly here (except maybe Robben Ford who is modern sounding). Here you need to understand V-II (or was II-V) cadence idea instead of the standard V-IV-I in straight blues as well as build your chord knowledge with more advanced chords (maj7.maj6,9ths,13ths). Sounds complicated but you can find videos of such things on bittorrent sites. These players dont think in terms of scales but rather their understanding of harmony. So they build licks from their head or maybe a chord and perhaps the pentatonic scale. Developing a good ear is useful.
Once you get these things done, I reckon the mysterious jazz sound (usually playing the in between notes will become less mysterious).
Then you can start deciphering the mysterious playings of giant Jazz greats (swing to Bop to fusion perhaps) like Tal Farlow, Jim Hall, Joe Pass, Rusell Malone, Jimmy Bruno, Wes Montgomery, Charlie Christian, Herb Ellis etc. But this is a whole new area of its own. The blues will start you on right road.
Most important is to listen alot. You ears will be your guide. |
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| gapster |
| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 648
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i am half way learning jazz..maybe i can help you a little
calibre2001 is right . train you ears to hear first ...
play a jazz tune in your head ..then project it OUT by playing straight away
jazz standards you can try downloading:
autumn leaves
Blue bossa
donna lee
all of me
anything by george benson , greg howe
basically the main concept of jazz is :
full of complicated chords and your solos are the APPREGGIOs of the complicated chords...and 1 jazz chord consist of what ? 5 , 6 notes? you can even call it a scale
so everytime the chord changes you change your scale..thats about it..
and there is another advanced level where you mix the bebop scale with your appregios..ok that i don't know wtf izzit about..
and at more advanced level..its like a G7(13) chord..you don't play a G7(13) appregio but you use a D#7add9 (something i forgotten  ) this was what i learnt recently..
so a good way to start...take a jazz standard covers..by mile davis or something..learn the song..steal their CHOPS! ..copy what they play..gather a few artistes so that you can make it your own...
i strongly recoment autumn leaves..because the chords are more open Dm7-G7-Cmaj7-Fmaj7/A-Dm-E-Am ...whenever you use their chops make sure that you know what chords are used under the chops ..
eg u hear a lick that is nice in autumn leaves...learn that lick ..check what chords was played during the chops..and you got it..apply it anywhere whenever you meet that chord again
all the best
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| Bode |
| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 2033
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| gapster...did you manage to get the George Benson stuff I told you about? |
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| gapster |
| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 648
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^ haha...i downloaded until 20% ..then suddenly no seed already..damn suck sial! ..
well its ok now i am going straight to the bomb..i got some emily rember ,john scofield , scott henderson ,and don mock
any advice bode?
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| calibre2001 |
| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:10 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 59
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Actually I left out something important which gapster mentioned above.
Listen to non guitar jazz players. Many jazz/swing guitarists often cite horn players as inspirations. Charlie Christian dugged Lester Young, and others did Charlie Parker, Duke Ellington etc.
By 'old skool' you're refering to swing and bebop jazz?
When your ear becomes familiar with jazzy ideas, you can start borrowing ideas/licks/phrasings from these players and incorporate them into your playing.
Try to avoid thinking in terms of scales.
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On the chord progression gapster gave (Dm7-G7-Cmaj7-Fmaj7/A-Dm-E-Am), remember the ii-V cadence idea mentioned above?
Can you see that Dm7 - G7 (II-V) in the key of C?
Can you the Cmaj7 - Fmaj7 (II-V) in the key of B?
Notice the change in key but the same II-V idea here?
OK, I might not be entirely correct here but I hope you got the point. In jazz, many players often substitute the chords with slightly different voicings. Hence the 'weird' sounding chords we often call substitutes like #13b9, #5, min7b5. There're open sounding because of passing notes. And passing notes are shared by other chords and keys. As a result you can change key (sound) and use almost any 'weird' chord whilst not being restricted by conventional chord progressions (i,e. straight blues where a person has to end up playing only chords and notes that fit within a straight pentatonic scale). In short, you can make the progression more interesting.
The older generation of jazz players were at a musical subconscious level aware of this and thus could noodle around with the 'weird' chords and sounds of jazz. Autumn Leaves is a jazz standard from the swing era which is relatively simple compared to the later bebop and fusion ideas. I agree with gapster, those standards are good to start with. There're plenty more though.
If you opt for the blues path, you'll find Donna Lee a heavily blues influenced. Actually most of Charlie's stuff are.
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Is theory useful? Yes but it doesnt necessarily mean you'll become a guitar wizard. Is theory useful in jazz? It makes you aware what goes on when playing but this aspect can be developed with experience n a discerning ear. Practice and experimentation is equally important, sometimes more. You can progress this way too. There are no rules basically. As I recall Charlie Parker - you learn it all and the forget it all. Something like tt.
Guys, which Benson albums are good? |
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| fReqZz |
| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 1351
Location: Mont Kiara
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this is getting deep, even blues is out of my talent.. let alone jazz... ho ho ho.. and i couldnt understand a thing, im 21 and things arent getiing better in terms of musical theory.. of to practice!!
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| Otaizam |
| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 478
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Instead of listening to what u guys listen to, like G Benson, Larry carlton, etc etc etc...
I also listen to, Norman Brown and Ritchie Kicklighter, may be not so popular as most big name, but their riff and progression are quite pleasing. plus, sounds practical for guys like me to play...
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I m Now with: Iba........... Arrghh!!! Now what I really need is my hand and brain. The rest is just another thing. |
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| Bassmaster |
| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:31 pm Post subject: chick outt dis venezuellan master!!!! |
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Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 119
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| Quote: |
Carlos Eduardo Arellano, jazz guitar from Venezuela
Free MP3s :
http://www.carlosarellano.com/music/
http://music.download.com/carloseduardoarellano/3600-8497_32-100754499.html
Carlos Eduardo born in Ciudad Bolivar, Venezuela, a city located in a region at south of Venezuela with amazing places, scenery and natural formations like Orinoco river, Tepuys, Canaima, Salto Angel, Amazonas and "Gran Sabana". Maybe that earth energy around Carlos was the key for his inmense creative flow. World wide recognized and famous maestro Antonio Lauro was born in Ciudad Bolivar too and lived near Carlos' birthplace. Carlos then was exposed to classical and popular songs, music and instruments from an early age. His first experiences and influences were attained by listening to jazz from his father vinyl LPs... Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington and brazilian carnival samba music among others. He also gained insights from the rich traditional folklore, mainly the favorite of Carlos, calypso and "tambor" music from the east zones of Venezuela where exists an incredible treasure of african blend culture.
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