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| rg_x2n |
 Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:50 pm Post subject: another noOb question. what is guitar preamp? |
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Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 868
Location: sg buloh, selangor
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well, aku dok wonder pasal bender nie for a while... sebab aku pun x penah guna bender nie.
aper bender preamp nie eh?
aper beza preamp nie dgn amp sebenar?
dari segi sound, ada byk beza x preamp dgn amp btul?
nak sambung mana preamp nie... trus ke PA ka, ataupun ke speaker... kalo connect ke PC boleh x? |
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| ZiNK |
| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 815
Location: Setapak, KL
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| Dufresne |
| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:48 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 190
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Hmmm...kalo nak citer 1-1 pjg ni, so i'll try to keep it simple...
In an amplifier, basically there r 2 major parts/section; pre-amp & power amp. Generally pre-amp is used as tone shaping, that is where u have u're EQ & gain, ur main sound comes from here. Power amp is simply to amplify the signal from the preamp, before going to the speaker(s).
Functinonality of a preamp is the same as any regular guitar amp, the only difference is that preamps that r sold to the public r either rack mounted or in a stomp box...
Dr segi sound, preamp is not even close to a full amp, kena amplify signal dr preamp, through power amp or a combo amp.
Cara pakai; the correct way to connect to a guitar amp is to connect it through the f/x loop jack or power amp in jack. This is bcuz u want to bypass the amps' preamp so u'll get ur tone/sound without interfearence...
Line 6 POD can still be considered as a preamp. Dulu pon byk org pakai as a preamp, but the sound is not as good compare to direct recording. POD Pro or POD Pro XT blh pakai through amp & also power amp, selain dr masuk ke PA, multitrack or soundcard, & sounds much better than teh POD. A few modern preamp yg ade emulated line out pon blh hook up to PA, multitrack or soundcard. Modern preamp yg ade feature mcm ni include the Marshall JMP-1, Rocktron Prophesy, Tech 21 PSA-1, among others. Check the net on these preamps for more info...
Cheers...  |
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| rg_x2n |
| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:47 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 868
Location: sg buloh, selangor
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ooo... so kalo aku nak connect ker speaker 4X12, kene connect through head dier ar... menarik giler.
tapi preamp nie sama harga dgn combo tube amp eh? tu pun paling murah kan? yg ridzi nyer tri-axis sampai rm14K  |
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| silbi |
| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 843
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saje nak mencelah di pagi syahdu ini...
in hifi terms...pre-amps will be used if u r into full separate systems...
meaning u'd have a pre-amp to have control over the tone, volume, etc - which will be connected to a power amp (or a few power amps if you do biamping etc) to drive your speakers.
nowadays, a common term for pre-amp would be pre-pro because the pre-amp (pre) is also a processor (pro) to process all the required signals that you want - be it stereo, 3-stereo, pro logic, dolby digital, dts, dts-es discrete, CS surround, logic 7, etc...
Full separate systems are normally used for higher end model while for budget model, the pre-amp is built-in with the amplifier within one single unit.
However, if the unit is equipped with pre-outs, you can always bypass the amplifier stage in the unit to connect to better power amps, and have more sonic control over sound (to some extent).
hehe...now i feel like one of the hifi reviews in what hifi.
so in actuality, pre-amp's function is more or less the same in the hifi and guitar world. So maybe someday you can try to connect you guitar to your hifi and see if you can get dts-es sound from your guitar...hehe..
btw - noob questions are always good...keeps us more informed...
regards
marantz sr5300
mission 733i |
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| ultraman_cosmo |
| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Mod Squad
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 1665
Location: Mines resort city
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Dufresne,
Good explanation
kalo tri-axis kene cucuk ker power amp bunyikan speaker 12x4. lain la kalo duduk trus ker mixer the ker PC.
preamp tu general sangat bunyinya, semua multieffect modul pun ada preamp. Ada yang murah ader yang mahal. Behringer MIC200 dengan satu tube around RM320 jer.
http://www.behringer.com/MIC200/index.cfm?lang=ENG
Yang penting, kene faham preamp hanya akan bentuk tone tapi tak mungkin nak bunyikan speaker. So still perlu power amp utk sampung ker cabinet.
Tapi pekara paling penting bagi aku pasal preamp ne adalah the effect chain, maksudnya dimana preamp tu berada, dimana kita shape the tone, dimana nak overdrive, or eq or delay or reberb.
Preamp = shape ur tone
Power amp PA = amplify supaya boleh kuar ker speaker.
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| deadzid |
| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Mod Squad
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 3891
Location: Shah Alam
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wah.. tak perasan pulak menatang ni boleh buat guitar pre-amp.. selama ni aku ingat utk microphone je (sbb nama model dia MIC200). eh betul ke dia ada real tube dalam tu? ke just tube modeling technology je?
lets say aku guna setting: guitar -> SansAmp GT2 -> mixer -> pc
so where should i place the pre-amp? and then yg MIC200 tu mcm takde banyak option utk tweak pon, just pilih mode pre-amp je.. apa kelebihan kalau aku guna menatang nih dlm signal chain di atas? pasal SansAmp tu pon memang tube modeling jugak.. so perlu ke MIC200 ni?
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| ultraman_cosmo |
| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Mod Squad
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 1665
Location: Mines resort city
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i ill go for
guitar -> SansAmp GT2 -> MIC200 >mixer -> pc
or
guitar -> MIC200 >SansAmp GT2 -> mixer -> pc
Mic100 lebih kepada mic preamp, tapi Mic200 ada banyak lagi instrument. reffer the manual yer. Ada both XLR and TRS 1/4" output and input. And balance and unbalance signal.
Accually, mic200 lebih kepada nak bagi warm skit bunyi tube feel. Tapi kebanyakan review suruh tukar tube kepada electrro harmony...
Kebanyakan moduler even pod and GT8 walopun preamp sedap tapi agak kurang tube caracteristic... and this is one of the sollution.
Aku pun belom pernah pakai menatang ne... asik tak sampai jer nak beli pasal terbeli barang lain... hahahha. Orang yang pernah pakai MIC100 kalo tak silap aku aalah si afiq, crybaby... tanya lah dia...
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And Now all jazz. |
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| Dufresne |
| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 190
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| rg_x2n wrote: | | ooo... so kalo aku nak connect ker speaker 4X12, kene connect through head dier ar... |
Yes, kalo ade 1/2 stack, & amp tu ade f/x loop, preamp -> return jack. Or blh connect ke pwr amp...
| rg_x2n wrote: | | tapi preamp nie sama harga dgn combo tube amp eh? tu pun paling murah kan? yg ridzi nyer tri-axis sampai rm14K |
Not really...byk guitar preamp on the market, price dia varies, bergantung pada features la, tube or ss, etc. Tri-Axis is one of the most expensive preamps ever, Prophesy pon harge dekat2 jugak la. I think paling murah right now for a rack mounted unit is Rocktron Gainiac2 is only USD 299, ok la tu for a tube preamp...
| ultraman_cosmo wrote: |
kalo tri-axis kene cucuk ker power amp bunyikan speaker 12x4. lain la kalo duduk trus ker mixer the ker PC. |
Tri-Axis blh hook to a mixer or souncard sbb dia ade recording out...
Yes, mmg byk multi f/x yg ade preamp jugak, meaning if u want to use with just a power amp, u can. Aku dah tgk ramai org buat mcm ni; dorang pakai multi f/x yg ade preamp (Boss, Digitech, etc.), & then pakai ss power amp je. Behringer mmg dah lamer jual MIC200 tu, very useful when used in PC recording or DAW. Dia blh sort off "warm" kan the whole sound. But for live features aku x berani ckp sbb very seen/heard anyone doing it before. Maybe u guys can try, hehe...
| deadzid wrote: |
lets say aku guna setting: guitar -> SansAmp GT2 -> mixer -> pc
so where should i place the pre-amp? and then yg MIC200 tu mcm takde banyak option utk tweak pon, just pilih mode pre-amp je.. apa kelebihan kalau aku guna menatang nih dlm signal chain di atas? pasal SansAmp tu pon memang tube modeling jugak.. so perlu ke MIC200 ni? |
Kalo aku, for recording purposes, aku taruk GT2 -> MIC200 -> mixer. U'd want to give the GT2 more tube-like feel if u like, not the guitar. Yup, GT2 tu mmg tube modelling, sound dia mmg dah sedap as is, so x tau la if using the MIC200 blh tukar feel dia ke x...
Cheers... |
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| ultraman_cosmo |
| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Mod Squad
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 1665
Location: Mines resort city
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Secara teorinya sememang nyer MIC200 harus berada selapas GT2. GT2>mic200. Pada mulanya begitulah kefahaman aku.
BUt.
Accually,
guitar -> MIC200 >SansAmp GT2 -> mixer -> pc
- also boleh even it sound like we add thy tube feel to the guitar. What i mean is MIC200 also can duduk after the GT2.
-great hot punch for your pickups but kene kurangkan gain dari preamp.
example.
guitar>eq> compressor> any tone modify>MIC200>GT2>modul> bla bla.
- it sound pelik, tapi itulah yang aku dapat feedback dari forum forum lain.
But aku pun tak nak komen banyak pasal chain cam ne before aku try sendiri.
- even aku nak try what happen if aku masukkan mic200 kedalam mana mana amp or multieffect effect loop.
Salah satu yang pernah aku buat adalah memasukan preamp Potxt ke dalam GT-8. aku disable preamp kat GT and replace to Pod preamp. Now i can add GT best effects into the pod setting.
Teruja.
Wow, waht a guud discustion.
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Maiden, loudness, ACDC, black sabath, deep purple, jimmi and vinnie moore
And Now all jazz. |
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| deadzid |
| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Mod Squad
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 3891
Location: Shah Alam
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whoa.. thanx for the feedback! yup nice discussion indeed!
dah agak dah, Dufresne mesti bagi input punya kalau bab2 preamp ni 
tu la pasal, GT2 tu tube modeling preamp..
kalau ditambah dgn "real" tube preamp, ape akan jadi yea?
tgh tunngu menatang ni kluar..
MINIMIC MIC800
Ultra-Compact Microphone Modeling Preamp
http://www.behringer.com/MIC800/index.cfm?lang=ENG
hopefully harga dia bawah RM180 je!
tak tau la ada tube ke tak dalam dia...
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| rg_x2n |
| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 868
Location: sg buloh, selangor
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uih... aku x sangka thread aku bley dpt feedback mcm nie, thanks alot guys. sorry lambat reply, baru balik keje nie 
hm2, byk kene baca nie. ader la faham skit2, yg cheap preamp tu gempak x? kalo rm 1500 for a tube preamp, mcm btul2 berbaloi jer... sebab tone tube tu yg aku nak... mcmana hasilnya kalo aku buat mcmnie
guitar--> preamp--> roland cube 15...?
or, for recording
guitar--> preamp--> PC
kalo aku selitkan POD dalam setting tu mcmana eh? sebab aku tgk rig metallica, gila banyak preamp dier... pakai skali sumer dalam satu masa ker?
bolerh ker kalo...
guitar--> preamp/POD--> POD/preamp--> amp/PC
thanks for the feedback  |
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| rg_x2n |
| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 868
Location: sg buloh, selangor
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*noob question alert*
ah guys... aku nie slalu tau something, tapi x tau nama... power amp nie kira yg ader kat amp tu la eh? kira, all amp are include with the power amp la kan?
kalo head drp half stack tu kira power amp ker? |
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| Dufresne |
| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 190
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ultraman...
Maybe org2 kat forum tu dah try dah, so probably they know what they're talking bout. But then again, it makes sense jugak kalo letak b4 GT2 tu; u dont want to overdriven the tubes in the mic200, posibility sound x sedap tu tinggi...
| ultraman_cosmo wrote: |
- even aku nak try what happen if aku masukkan mic200 kedalam mana mana amp or multieffect effect loop. |
Chances r it'll sound more like an EQ rather than anything else. Dont expect it to warm-up the tones of an amp. From what i've read, mic200 is more suitable for recording, thats why it uses the 12AX7 tube, to add warmth to the recording....
But as always, u can try...kalo dpt sound sedap, citer kat kitaorg, hehe... 
deadzid...
No problem dude, glad to help...
| deadzid wrote: | tu la pasal, GT2 tu tube modeling preamp..
kalau ditambah dgn "real" tube preamp, ape akan jadi yea? |
Better setup mcm ultraman ckp tu, senang pon senang nak setup...
rgx2n...
Cheap preamp tu, bg aku USD299 x de la murah sgt, bkh tahan la jugak harge dia. But that is the retail price for Rocktron Gainiac. Gainiac 2 pon dah kuar skarang ni, same price. nak ckp gempak x gempak tu susah skit la, suma org ade taste sendri, cari la user review psal preamp tu...
| rg_x2n wrote: | guitar--> preamp--> roland cube 15...?
or, for recording
guitar--> preamp--> PC
kalo aku selitkan POD dalam setting tu mcmana eh? sebab aku tgk rig metallica, gila banyak preamp dier... pakai skali sumer dalam satu masa ker?
bolerh ker kalo...
guitar--> preamp/POD--> POD/preamp--> amp/PC
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1st one tu blh, cube 15 tu x de f/x loop, tp kalo masuk ikut insert pon ok gak, make sure pakai JC clean & flat kan EQ as much as possible. For recording plak, kalo preamp tu a emulated line out, blh pakai direct ke PC, kalo x de, kena pakai speaker simulator. Simulator ni dlm bentuk software pon blh, hardware pon blh, tp aku prefer hardware la, senang skit...
Rig Metallica (rig sape ko tgk?) mmg byk giler preamp, tp x pakai all the time. Ade certain setting je yg pakai bende2 tu...
Setup yg last tu, actually redundant la, sbb dlm POD pon mmg dah ade modeller "guitar preamp" (based on Marshall JMP-1 lg...), 2nd u wont be using the preamp the correct way, so susah skit nak dpt sound sedap...
| rg_x2n wrote: | ... power amp nie kira yg ader kat amp tu la eh? kira, all amp are include with the power amp la kan?
kalo head drp half stack tu kira power amp ker? |
Power amp mmg ade kat suma amplifier, cuma dia separated by section in a combo amp. Yup, suma amp mmg ade power amp...
Head amp with stacks, tu kira amplifier biase je, ade preamp section & power amp section, but in a head format with detachable speaker cabinets (stack)...
Cheers... |
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| rg_x2n |
| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:25 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 868
Location: sg buloh, selangor
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| Quote: | | Rig Metallica (rig sape ko tgk?) mmg byk giler preamp, tp x pakai all the time. Ade certain setting je yg pakai bende2 tu... |
x pasti, aku ader nampak kat film some kind of monster diorg...
hhuhu, dufrense, thanks for all the info. i learn alot!
berminat jugak kat gainiac tu... menarik la... how is it compare to marshall's EL84-20/20?
kekadang tu, sesetengah preamp, apsal knob sikit giler eh, mcm kat marshall EL84 tuh, ader presence dgn level jer... |
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