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boyroy
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:45 pm    Post subject: Frequency @ Hz? Reply with quote



Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 1429
Location: Shah Alam

ye la bro cosmo

boley tlg jelas kn guna Hz bg nama2 yg slalu kita nmpak x mcm kt bwh

1. Low Hz?
2. Low Mid Hz?
3. Mid Hz?
4. High Mid Hz?
5. High Hz?

aku rs bg sesiapa yg biasa main Equalizer akn lbh mudah nk fhm
tntg Hz,
jd kalo nk trg kn sound2 ni lg sng nk fhm kowt
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IZZI
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 3447
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Bagus soalan Bro Boy Roy

Ni aku nak cerita bukan ttg peraturan standard ttg frequensi, tapi amalan aku yang mmg tak ikut peraturan. Aku byk belajar frekuensi lepas aku pakai Digitech GNX3000. So amalan aku byk bergantung dgn apa yg aku belajar.


[Bass]--[Mid]--[Treble]

Walaupun general range frekuensi yang mampu didengari manusia ialah antara 20hz hingga 20kHz (20,000Hz), Untuk pemahaman yang simple mcm aku, aku centerkan frequency pada 1khz (1000hz), bass pada 100Hz dan Treble pada 8kHz (8000hz). Ini adalah range yang aku dah register kat telinga aku.


[Low Mid]--[Mid]--[High Mid]

Walaupun aku selalu ikut telinga dan tak tengok pun pada angka Hz masa setting sound, tapi pada aku Low Mid ialah frequency range yang dikongsi oleh pihak Bass dan juga pihak Mid. Dalam kes amalan aku yang menganggap bass 100Hz dan Mid 1000kHz tu, low mid adalah apa2 frequency dari 400Hz hingga 650Hz.

Lupakan nombor tu, dari segi praktikalnya, low mid ialah apa2 frequency yang memberi kesan bunyi mid+bass (bunyi kembung). Makin pekat bass yang keluar, makin low lah mid tu sehinggalah masuk ke kawasan pihak bass sahaja tanpa mid.

Berdasarkan yang di atas, begitulah halnya dgn high mid.
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Jiro
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 1933
Location: Shah Alam

huhuh aku suka topic nih..

k - An abbreviation meaning: kilo (a prefix for 1000).
Kilo - A prefix meaning 1000.
kHz - An Abbreviation of kilo-Hertz
Hz - An abbreviation for the term Hertz (the unit of frequency).
dB - An abbreviation of the term Decibel, a unit used in comparing signal strengths.

aku nak terangkan pun aku tak berapa pandai nak terang kan.. tapi aku secara jujur pun pernah meng adaptasi kan cara yg IZZI dah registerkan kat telinga dia tuh.

tapi aku selalu adapt kan freq dalam avoid or ducking (mengelak).

nak kata terrer pun tak, pandai pun tak, each time aku buat mixxing, atau setup sound masa jamming atau live stage, EQ freq adalah yg aku selalu guna kan utk memberi ruang kepada setiap instrument satu lane bunyi, supaya tiada clash atau instrument lain menutupi satu sama lain.

common yg aku rasa dan org lain yg basic rasa :

low = bunyi bass
mid = bunyi utama
hi = bunyi tinggi atau bunyi muncung tirung, tirus huhuh

selalu nye aku kait kan freq mid dgn bunyi body.

aku selalu kait kan low freq adalah bunyi yg akan menutup sesuatu ruang atau mengembang sesuatu bunyi

hi freq pulak aku selalu guna kan utk menajam kan sesuatu bunyi, atau membingit kan sesuatu bunyi.

macam di dalam mixxing, setiap freq yg kita kawal juga bole di adjust melalui bandwith dia, iaitu keluasan atau ketirusan freq yg di naik turun kan.

di bawah adalah salah satu contoh harmonic freq yg aku selalu gunakan sebagai rujukan:

Bass - 400 Hz "Increase to add clarity to bass lines..."
Bass - 1500 Hz " Increase for ‘clarity’ & ‘pluck..."
Guitar - 3 kHz "Increase to add attack..."
Guitar - 5 kHz. "Increase ‘brightness..."
Vocal - 5 kHz "Increase for vocal presence."
Vocal - 10 kHz "Increase to brighten vocals."

Bass - 40 Hz "Reduce to decrease "boom" and increase recognition."
Guitar - 100 Hz "Reduce to decrease boom and increase clarity."
Vocal - 200 Hz "Reduce to decrease muddiness of vocals."

Contoh 1 :

kalau macam kita baca kat net atau memana refer website, kekadang kita dapat tips macam nih

-6 @ 400 Hz +4 @ 5 kHz

maksud nye turun kan 6db pada freq 400hz
maksud nya naik kan 4db pada freq 5 kHz

Freq juga ada kaitan dgn octave sesuatu bunyi
di pecah kan kepada pelbagai seperti bass range, bass presence, lower mid range, mid range, upper mid range,presence range, treble range , etc etc.


Contoh 2:

Setiap range memain peranan dalam setiap instrument, dan setiap instrument tiada ketetapan. Contoh di bawah juga salah satu freq detail yg aku buat rujukan bila terlupa:

Electric guitar
Boost 240 Hz :: fullness
Boost 2.5 kHz :: bite & presence
Cut 100 Hz :: clean up the boominess
Boost 125-250 Hz :: add warmth
Boost 2.5-4 kHz :: bring out rhythm guitar & emphasize the attack
Boost 4-6dB 5 kHz :: bite & presence (lead guitar)

100 Hz or less – Boominess *
125-250 Hz – Add body and warmth (fills out)
240 Hz – Fullness *
300 Hz – Muddiness (Boost or cut to thicken/ thin out)
300-500 Hz – Eliminate nasal quality (Cut) ~
700 Hz – Create a throaty or woodsy sound ~
1 kHz – Add edge ~
1.5-3 kHz – Add edge
2.5 kHz – Bite and presence *
5 kHz – Helps lead (boost 4-6 dB) *
5, 8 & 10 kHz – Bright ~
6 kHz – Add clarity
10 kHz – Add hiss


Contoh 3 :

Ini aku nak terang sgt, tak berapa pandai nak susun ayat, but jadual di bawah nih most of the time aku guna sebagai rujukan bila buat mastering:

80hz - rumble of the bass
100hz - thump of the kick
200hz - bottom of the guitar
250hz - warmth of the vocal
350hz - bang of the snare
400hz - body of the bass
500hz - clang of the high hat
600hz - clang of the cymbals
800hz - ping of ride cymbal
1000hz - meat of the guitar
1200hz - body of the snare
1400hz - meat of the vocal
1600hz - snap of the kick/plectrum on guitar (attack)
2500hz - wires and snap of snare
3000hz - presence of the vocal
4000hz - ring of ride cymbal/top end of bass guitar
6000hz - sizzle of the high hat
7000hz - sizzle of the cymbals
8000hz - top end of the kick
9000hz - brightness on snare and cymbals
10000hz - brightness on vocal
12000hz - air on vocal
14000hz - air on cymbals


Kawalan Freq juga ada pelbagai technic, macam Q , Bandwith, hi pass dan low pass filter, shelving filter, peaking filter atau combine filters


apa pun this is IMHO, masih lagi belajar, aku selalu bertanya pada Huzai, Erylasia dan Deck berkenaan freq nih juga.

p/s: kalau ada salah, sila la tegur dan ajar Smile kali ni takda hal kene makan dgn piranha, hehe nak timba ilmu Very Happy
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ultraman_cosmo
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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teruskan kengkawan, gua tak menyempat nak tulis aper aper,
- kat office gua off line.
- malam plak terawih and macam macam xtvt ada.
- so maybe lepas raya la if nak tulis panjang panjang.
- Semua pun boleh terangkan, diorang diam diam ubi berisi jer tu.
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boyroy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 1429
Location: Shah Alam

Eh Jiro,
apsal serious sgt nih, hahahaha
ko x reply ayat permainan lg, ker da taubat
huhuhu

Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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Jiro
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Feb 2007
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Location: Shah Alam

huhuhu bila masuk dalam subject yg aku minat...aku tiada permainan hahaha

Rolling Eyes
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IZZI
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 3447
Location: Melbourne, Australia

kalau ada 20 org selalu bg informative reply mcm Jiro, mmg confirm meriah balik i-bands ni..
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eniQma
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

King Korek

Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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Jiro wrote:
huhuhu bila masuk dalam subject yg aku minat...aku tiada permainan hahaha

Rolling Eyes


hebat jiro....hidup jiro...! Wink
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Jiro
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 1933
Location: Shah Alam

huhuh thanks

tapi takkan takda org lain nak jawab? aku nak gak belajar dari pemahaman org lain, sbb aku sgt minat bab EQ dan Freq.. hope yg lain pun bole terang kan, boleh aku think of the box utk project akan dtg Very Happy

ETERNAL..sila kan Razz

p/s: boyroy, orange music mmg best, jgn ubah apa apa sampai aku buat photoshoot kat sana Razz
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ETERNAL
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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aku tatau la benda2 cenggini Embarassed
setakat Bass Mid Treble je..
pusing2 lain tak tau..
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sungaipelong
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 249

ETERNAL wrote:
aku tatau la benda2 cenggini Embarassed
setakat Bass Mid Treble je..
pusing2 lain tak tau..


sama laa.. Embarassed
tu pun ikut sedap telinga..
baru nak blajo..

tp rasa mcm xcaya je dgn statement bro Eternal nih..hehe
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Jiro
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 1933
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permainan...mana mungkin tak tau kalau dgn boyroy pun dia berani beta hahah
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boyroy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 1429
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adush,
kuar lg permainan,
aku lg ler samdol

bass, mid trebel pn aku x fhm dowh
yg aku tau low, hi lo ngan my lo,

huhuhu Embarassed Laughing Laughing
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ultraman_cosmo
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Dalam Audio biasanya kita berada dalam range 20hz ker 20Khz
- ia adalah range pendengaran manusia.
- walo cam mana pun tak semua manusia boleh dengar 20-20K.
- ia berkaitan dengan umor, contohnya yg tua dah tak berapa sensitif kepada freq tinggi dan rendah.
- cuma anda perlu faham freq tak berenti setaka t 20K sahaja.
- kita ada freq sampai mega Hz- EHz, radio freq, ultra freq, Microwave dan sebagainya.
- 20hz to 20Khz diketegorykan low freq, or audio freq.
- utk range giler babas tengok la sini daa.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_spectrum

Freq adalah bukan linear.
- maksudnya note E [1st] paling low pada sting 6 guitar adalah 82hz
- note E [2nd] pada satu octave adalah 164 hz
- mana kala note E [3rd] octave seterusnya adalah 330 hz.
- kalo kita perhatikan masing masing freqnya adalah 82hz, 160hz dan 330hz.
- maka ia adalah darap 2, utk octave seterunya.
- jika A4 adalah 440hz maka A5, octave seterusnya adalah 440hz X 2 = 880hz.

Pitch dan frequency.
- Pitch or note dan freq sentiasa berkait rapat.
- contoh freq 440hz yg digunakan sebagai standard pitching adalah A4.
- Jika satu tuner tu dia punya range E0 to C8.
- maksudnya ia boleh digunakan utk detect freq dari E0= 20.60 Hz to C8= 4186 Hz.
- maka tuner ne boleh digunakan utk bass.
- So dengan tau range pitch instrument dan spec tuner maka kita tau satu tuner tu boleh tuning mana instrument.
- kalo nak buat intonation biasanya kita perlukan tuner yg boleh menjangkawi E7 utk sampai fret 24 guitar.
- OK OK what the hell E0 C8, E7 neee hahaha.


Pitch to Frequency Mappings
- http://peabody.sapp.org/class/st2/lab/notehz/
- Setiap pitch adalah mewaki freq.
- 0,1,2,3,4 dan sebagainya mewakilo octave.
- Pitch paling rendah adalah C0 = 16hz.
- octave seterusnya pitch C1 = 33hz.
- Pada guitar anda E2 = E opern string anda dan note E pada fret 24 string satu adalah E6 1.319khz
- jadi range guitar anda pada standard tune bisa pada freq E2 - E6 atau 82hz to 1.319khz.
- so jika nak beli tuner utk instrumen anda perhatikan range pitchnya.
- kalo range C2 sampai C6 mean ia takan boleh detect fret 24 note E utk intonation.
- now u know tuner mana sesuai kalo nak buat intonation.
- walo cam mana pun, intonation bukan kena cukup range tapi lebih kepada ketepatan sebenarnya.
- tuner dengan wide range + ketepatan = $$$$$$.. hahahhaah
- walocam mana pun biasanya pitch music stop sampai pitch octave 8, psal selebihnya note tersebut dah tak sound musical.


Sama macam izzi,
- gua cuba memahami freq bila mula berkecimpung dengan GT8.
- belajar guna paramatic eq so kena tau freq yg mana.
- MFX memang ada banyak kelebihan nya jika anda benar benar ingin nak explore.
- next aku banyak study pasal freq bila bab bab nak buat high cut low cat, high pass low pass and fre corner utk analog pedal.


Octave dari 20hz - 20Khz.
- kalo kita kira range octave D#0 20hz berterusan, kita akan sampai ker D#10 lebih kurang 20Khz
- Ada 10 octave semuanya.
- dalam octave octave tersebutnya kita kan di perkenalkan dengan range macam sub bass, lower mid, uper mid , presence, brilliance dan sebagainya.

Jom kita perkenalkan setiap dari 10 range octave utk audio.
- ini 10 octave range jer.
- asasnya kita ada bass, mid dan high.
- 4 utk bass, 3 utk middle dan 3 utk high.
- 20Hz to 40H utk music biasanya diabaikan, tapi utk penerangan ne gua tunjuk supaya anda semua faham, benda lah term term, upper mid . high, middle mid adalah bersal dari 10 octave pitch dalan series 20-20K freq.
- Sama ada anda nak ingat the range or anda boleh ingat the freq center nya.
- 1k hz adalah benda yg paking gua ingat sebab merupakan center utk mid freq.


20Hz to 40H
- center pada 31.25 Hz
- Ini adalah very low bass.
- range ne selalu diabaikan sebab tak berapa musical freqnya.

40Hz to 80Hz
- center pada 62.5 Hz
- Lower Bass, Sub Bass

80Hz to 160Hz
- center pada 125 Hz
- bass range

160Hz to 320Hz
- center pada 250 Hz
- Upper Bass

320Hz to 640Hz
- center pada 500 Hz
- Lower Mid-Range atau Bass Presence

640Hz to 1.2kHz
- center pada 1 kHz
- middle Mid-Range

1.2kHz to 2.5kHz
- center pada 2 kHz
- Upper Mid-Range

2.5kHz to 5kHz
- center pada 4 kHz
- Presence, Lower Highs

5kHz to 10kHz
- center pada 8 k
- The Treble Range, Middle Highs

10kHz to 20kHz
- center pada 16 k
- brilliance Top End


Aku tak nak menceritakan pasal how this freq or eq dan kegunaan nya.
- sebabkita nyer sound engeneer biasa lebih arif akan keadah memancing freq ne hahahhaah.
- pada gua ceta pasal freq, ada beberapa study lain yg perlu kita dalami.
- antaranya, wave, harmonic content, resonance, paramatic, sine wave dan beberap lagi yg gua dah lupa.
- basic nya seperti diatas, tapi satu note bukan berada pada freq nya jer, ia adalah sekumpulan freq dalam harmonicnya tersendiri.
- lain kali kita ceta pasal tu.

Kalo ada salah harap perbetulkan.
- sebab gua bukan lulusan audio or Electromagnetic engenering... hahhaha.
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eniQma
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

King Korek

Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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walaupon kelihatan asap berkepul2 kat kepala aku nih...
very nice info...campur jiro punya info...MALATOP jadinye...

huhu

giler arr x penah aku terfikir nak tau pasal benda nih...tp bila da baca menarik juge huhu Wink
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