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| arakian |
 Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:59 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 27
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shredder...
the bad guy in ninja turtle... 
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| Bode |
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Feb 2004
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Definition of shred are all personal to the listener, and there's no wrong or right.
Just like we can discuss until eternity on when does hard rock becomes heavy metal and when does heavy metal becomes 'metal'...(the term heavy metal does not seemed to be used anymore)....in the end these definitions has no importance whatsoever on the music or even the artist themselves...all they care about is you buy their CD's!
My personal definition of shred is kinda close to gapster...I take guys like Greg Howe, Jason Becker, Joe Stump, Joey Taffola etc. etc. as shredders and I dont classify Steve Vai, EVH etc. as shredders. The definition is very 'loose' and is based on what I think and what I 'feel'. Definitely not on technical terms. If my definition is not considered right, then it's not something I will lose sleep on...because it has no importance whatsoever to anybody for that matter.
Even though Richie Kotzen and a few other shredders have ventured into the non- shred arena of guitar playing, they are still labelled as shredders...maybe because that was how they were recognized when they came into the music scene.
So who do I listen to? I love to listen to Guitar Heroes...and may I point out that not every guitar hero is a shredder and not every shredder is a guitar hero. This is a fact. Definition of guitar heroes? I dunno...to me when a guitarist plays something which grabs me by the balls/make my spine chill/make my hair stand up at the back of my neck/touch me emotionally/make me want to listen to him a million times more...than probably they are guitar heroes. A guy like Steve Lukather can give me this effect with just one note, while a guy like Joe Stump cant give me this feeling even after a million arpeggios...it's all subjective of course...
Some shredders combine great feel with technique...Paul Gilbert, Richie Kotzen, Guthrie Govan etc. and these are amongst my favourites. Some 'non-shredders' can sure shred, but they have a heavier inclination to melody and feel, like Steve Lukather, John Sykes, Jake E. Lee etc. I love these guys too and for all the guys above(plus many more in the same category), I can listen to their whole album non-stop in one go.
But give me a Michael Angelo album(whose technique is amazing), I can only listen to probably 5 mins of it before getting bored. If a guitarist has only speed/technique and little else, it's just like seeing a circus performer juggle stuff while walking a tightrope...it's bloody amazing for the first 5 minutes...but after 1/2 hour of the same stunts...I get bored. Well that's me...if somebody else like that kinda thing, than do whatever pleases you...coz it's everybody's rights to like and dislike whatever they want  |
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| IZZI |
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 3447
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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I noticed bode always mention these two names..John sykes and Jake E. Lee..heheh.. ni yg aku nak cari balik lagu2 diorang ni.. nak dgr betul2 dan kaji.. huhuu..
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| Scumgrief |
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 02 Mar 2004
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Didn't Jake E Lee play with Ozzy, or am I thinking of somebody else....
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| IZZI |
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 3447
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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sapa yg whitesnake?
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| Bode |
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 2033
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| izuanhafez wrote: | | I noticed bode always mention these two names..John sykes and Jake E. Lee..heheh.. ni yg aku nak cari balik lagu2 diorang ni.. nak dgr betul2 dan kaji.. huhuu.. |
Bro...hang beli dua album jer cukup...sure ko tak nyesal punyer beli album ni:
Utk Jake E. Lee, cari album Ozzy 'Bark At The Moon'. Jake E. Lee's vibrato is only limited by the width of the neck! That's why the only who can replace him was Zakk Wylde. Personally, I prefer Jake to Zakk
Look...his thumb is on the fretboard! Although his playing is more technically demanding in the Ultimate Sin album, I prefer his playing on Bark At The Moon.
For John Sykes...Whitesnake '1987'....one of the albums representing the pinnacle of hard rock. I know there are heavy bands nowadays which plays faster, screams rougher...but they all sound like pussies when compared to this album, songwriting wise, guitar wise, singing wise. Even the ballads on this album sounds as if Coverdale were saying "I know this is a rock love ballad, but my dick is still bigger than yours." 
Last edited by Bode on Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| IZZI |
| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 3447
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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hahah dah jumpa free download!
http://delit.net/music/title_list_world.phtml?id=20845
wow 1983? i was 4 years old that time!! cayalah jake guna strat! ni yg semangat ni.. thanks bro!
p/s: time to rock kapak sambil kang kang!
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| gapster |
| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:30 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 648
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| that_vendor wrote: | | Quote: | nah..kurt cobain didn't pass this one  |
u got real nerve to write something like this, kid...  |
you can take it to jamtank.com topic " kurt cobain,loser or guitar hero" 
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| gapster |
| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:32 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 15 Mar 2005
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| izuanhafez wrote: | | gapster wrote: |
for me..i do not consider this guitarist (which often people call them "shredders" ) a shredder
Zakk Wylde
Kirk Hammet
Marty Friedman
Joe Satriani
Steve Vai
Van Halen |
do they pass gapster? hehe..
gapster.. will you attend the clinic? i respect what you enjoy most but if u can take that shred condition aside, i think u will learn something from Gary Hoey or even from everybody that probably good for expanding your shredibility. I was excited to neo shredding during my early days but who knows now i prefer to listen to guitarist like Mark Knopfler, SRV, roben ford etc.. hahah lawak tak? |
hahaha..yeah..i am just going through my teenagers on guitar
but i know when i grow older i will definately go into some jazz/fusion
i am starting to have a little something for greg howe and frank gambale now 
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| MiN |
| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:52 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 01 Mar 2005
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hey guys,
i read the post you guys made...and read all you views...on the subject which is very interesting 'shred'.
i dont have do define what shred is since most of you have a rough idea of what it is....basically its all down to the technical aspect of guitar playing from my opinion.
one great guitarist quoted ' Technique is a means to an end, and the broader your range of playing techniques, the easier it will be for you to figure out the best sounding (and easiest) way to realise all those great licks you hear in your head' Guthrie Govan
people especially young generations of guitarist nowadays tend to deviate from realising that the known 'shredders' like the ones which were already mentioned such as Paul Gilbert, Richie Kotzen, Guthrie Govan...etc would be offended if you call them just shredders.... why? because they prefer people calling them "guitar players' rather than shredders because it seems that shred literally means great technique with no feel.
this is true because we have labelled it that way and hence all these great guitarist would be offended if you call them shredders....maybe during the 80s when the shred thing was still new you could call them that but as we moved to the new millenium the term shred doest not really have the 'wow' factor like it usually does....
hence a 'real guitar player' is the right term for addressing guitarist with shred abilities and melodic abilities....
so the term shred has been misused abused by nearly every musician and non musician in the modern world.
another quote from Guthrie Govan 'At its best, it represents total freedom of musical expression, unfettered by technical limitations. At its worst, it represents a competitive sport for those with no musical identity. Allan Holdsworth and Chris Impellitteri spring to mind as examples of these extremes (though it would be unprofessional to say which player represents the best of shred and which represents the worst...!).'
in my opinion.....i would rather be labelled as a guitar player rather than a shredder because guitar player sound more spectacular and seems like they can either shred or play creatively...that is my goal.
Think yourslef as a musician who plays the guitar rather than a guitarist who plays music....
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| Bode |
| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:54 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 2033
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| gapster wrote: | hahaha..yeah..i am just going through my teenagers on guitar
but i know when i grow older i will definately go into some jazz/fusion
i am starting to have a little something for greg howe and frank gambale now |
I remember when I was 17...when I saw Steve Lukather on a magazine cover, I thought he's an overrated so-so pop guitarist and so un-cool and un-guitar hero That time, me, like every kid wanted to be Randy Rhoads/Jake E. Lee/EVH/Akira Takasaki/Yngwie (Steve Vai and Satriani were still not world famous at that time)...
Well, I had my chance to be a teenager...
Now, I know what a monster Steve Lukather is...his 'extremity' in his technicality is in his choice of notes, his extreme control of dynamics and feedback during live(check out the live version of 'Song for Jeff' on stevelukather.net), that he can pick bebop lines at blazing speed...and the fact that absolutely nobody( i mean guitar heroes) has managed to spot him screwing up a single note when playing live. All the Toto albums and his solo projects are recorded live in the studio anyway....he's just winging and wanking it all first take! |
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| Bode |
| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:57 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 2033
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He was mostly using a Charvel Strat with humbuckers at that time. Though he uses the tremolo on the albums, he doesnt use the tremolo live...he actually bends the neck of his Charvels to simulate the whammy dive that others were doing on the Floyd Rose...
Last edited by Bode on Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Bode |
| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:01 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 2033
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| MiN wrote: | hey guys,
i read the post you guys made...and read all you views...on the subject which is very interesting 'shred'.
i dont have do define what shred is since most of you have a rough idea of what it is....basically its all down to the technical aspect of guitar playing from my opinion.
one great guitarist quoted ' Technique is a means to an end, and the broader your range of playing techniques, the easier it will be for you to figure out the best sounding (and easiest) way to realise all those great licks you hear in your head' Guthrie Govan
people especially young generations of guitarist nowadays tend to deviate from realising that the known 'shredders' like the ones which were already mentioned such as Paul Gilbert, Richie Kotzen, Guthrie Govan...etc would be offended if you call them just shredders.... why? because they prefer people calling them "guitar players' rather than shredders because it seems that shred literally means great technique with no feel.
this is true because we have labelled it that way and hence all these great guitarist would be offended if you call them shredders....maybe during the 80s when the shred thing was still new you could call them that but as we moved to the new millenium the term shred doest not really have the 'wow' factor like it usually does....
hence a 'real guitar player' is the right term for addressing guitarist with shred abilities and melodic abilities....
so the term shred has been misused abused by nearly every musician and non musician in the modern world.
another quote from Guthrie Govan 'At its best, it represents total freedom of musical expression, unfettered by technical limitations. At its worst, it represents a competitive sport for those with no musical identity. Allan Holdsworth and Chris Impellitteri spring to mind as examples of these extremes (though it would be unprofessional to say which player represents the best of shred and which represents the worst...!).'
in my opinion.....i would rather be labelled as a guitar player rather than a shredder because guitar player sound more spectacular and seems like they can either shred or play creatively...that is my goal.
Think yourslef as a musician who plays the guitar rather than a guitarist who plays music.... |
Bloody good points there mate
Min...do you mind sending me by post ALL things about Guthrie Govan...interviews, music etc. etc. Kalau dia dah keluar album aku order sebijik! |
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| MiN |
| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:10 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 286
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hey bro Bode,
im now back and not in UK anymore....i do have one book called creative guitar by Guthrie Govan.
i am still waiting for his album to come out. i got his interview from guitar magazines which i usually buy such as guitar techniques and also by meeting him in London and talked with him. i also follow his news via his forum which he sometimes himself logged in to answer questions. you should go to his forum. http://online-discussion.dhenderson.com/GuthrieGovan/
i dont mind copying his CD of creative guitar if you want.
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| gapster |
| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 648
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hey paulgilbert/Min..you have a very mature opinion there
for me...your term "guitar players" ..
i have another name for it ..
such as vai and satch,they can shred and have great taste of melodies
i call them
GUITAR Virtuosos!!
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