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| gapster |
 Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 648
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^haha thanks..at least i know i am save 
anyway omar..
in some other guitar forums
i had seen ppl posting things such as
"how scale should i solo in a E-D-E progression?"
and then i get replies such as
"use lydian scale"
"use phrygian scale"
what does this mean actually?
can you write down exactly what are the notes in the "lydian scale" that they are mentioning?
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| omarjamaludin |
| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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well hmmm...E-D-E as in chord E to chord D to chord E? is the E and D chord a minor or major? that'll help abit in explaining...or u want me to assume they are just powerchords for the time being?
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| gapster |
| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 15 Mar 2005
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well..give it easier for u then
E-D-E ..power chord..the rock style .deep purple etc..
so what are the notes in the scale that i can use for this besides E minor..any modes?
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| blindriff |
| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 13 Sep 2005
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guys,
i like to know and request u all can show me any progression chords that rarely being used but it nice to hear....
please |
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| pakcik |
| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 12 Sep 2005
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Assalammualaikum Mr.OJ & Mr.Izuan
Sorry...masih pening about modes dulu, kini and hope not selamanya.
I find it very difficult to apply modes kalau chord progression tu involves more than 1 chord. Scale wise, I know we can make reference to the same basic patterns, with only the root position changing. It's just that...what are the family chords involve in a given mode application?
If say we play in the E minor key and wish to guna E phrygian, does this mean that we have to check first what are the common chords in the Am (C major) and Em (G major) keys...which is Am, Em & G? Are we limited to these chords only?
Or modes play cuma involve the underlying chord of the moment which has been altered...example you may use mixolydian during a 7th chord in play, pastu bila chord tukar ke say augmented 4th, pakai lydian pulak. Huuiisshhh....i better stop before i 'm totally confused. Weeei..nyesal tanya.
An insight please.... |
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| Raggy |
| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 196
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| pakcik wrote: | Assalammualaikum Mr.OJ & Mr.Izuan
Sorry...masih pening about modes dulu, kini and hope not selamanya.
An insight please.... |
gua pun! always confused, I mean......each time I think I understand it, some other blaady thing comes up that confuses it all.
But nowadays I'm beginning to suspect that Modes are just scales with different "feels", so if we're playing over a chord progression, we got to choose what kind of "feel" we're trying to convey, and then choose the appropriate Mode.
here is a link a found about Modes,and giving an interesting example of a song which contains 3 Modes, and a section where 2 modes are used at the same time!!! blaady shit, as if we weren't confused enough 
http://www.empire.k12.ca.us/capistrano/Mike/capmusic/modes/modes.htm
But then, just when it starts to make sense,some other joker in some other website says something like this:
"
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For applying these modal scale notes over chord patterns,
- First, be very aware of the relativity of the modes:
Playing a jazz I ii V progression in a major
key is equivalent to playing a VII i IV in dorian
or IV v I mixolidian. Similarly i V VI minor is
equivalent to vi I II phrygian. Phrygian key is
equivalent to playing a VII i IV in dorian or IV v I
mixolidian. Similarly i V VI minor is equivalent to
vi I II phrygian. Phrygian with the resolved 3rd
mentioned above differs from the "hungarian" scale
only in that the 7th is raised for the latter.
This gives rise to the suggestion of using the
hungarian scale as a substitution for phrygian over
the minor key progression.
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now,is that a gurantee for kepala pening or what!
just 12 frets in an octave, also got so much torture!
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| pakcik |
| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 12 Sep 2005
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| Maybe you're right....to treat them as just another scale with a certain distinct feel.....Tak berani nak go any further la. |
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| blindriff |
| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 55
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| pakcik wrote: | Assalammualaikum Mr.OJ & Mr.Izuan
Sorry...masih pening about modes dulu, kini and hope not selamanya.
I find it very difficult to apply modes kalau chord progression tu involves more than 1 chord. Scale wise, I know we can make reference to the same basic patterns, with only the root position changing. It's just that...what are the family chords involve in a given mode application?
If say we play in the E minor key and wish to guna E phrygian, does this mean that we have to check first what are the common chords in the Am (C major) and Em (G major) keys...which is Am, Em & G? Are we limited to these chords only?
Or modes play cuma involve the underlying chord of the moment which has been altered...example you may use mixolydian during a 7th chord in play, pastu bila chord tukar ke say augmented 4th, pakai lydian pulak. Huuiisshhh....i better stop before i 'm totally confused. Weeei..nyesal tanya.
An insight please.... |
Dulu i ingat i dah faham pasal mode ni... tapi bila baca,, macam jadik konfius balik.....
but i think mode is still under the original scale... i.e kalau the scale is C major.... like what u said the mode cuma involve the underlying chord at the moment. contoh dalam lagu using the key of C, the moment guna chord Dm, the same moment kita using the Dorian mode...
this is what from my understanding... am i right? please, correct me if i m wrong |
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| IZZI |
| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 3447
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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w'salam pakcik..
Acctually i'm not really a master of all these scale tricks.
But here is another analogy of modal tricks that i think can help us to have better understanding on mode aplication.
Tapi ni blues punya cerita.. When we play blues, we often use Dominant chord right. Tak kisah la ia 7th, 9th ,11th or 13th chord. These chord family is just to color the key and they dont affect the scale.
Let say we play blues in a key of C. So the progression is C-F-G (I-IV-V). Semasa dalam 1st Chord(in this case, C), there are at least 4 pentatonic scales yang kita boleh main iaitu Cminor pentatonic, Aminor pentatonic, D minor pentatonic, G minor pentatonic. Semua pentatonic ni can be mixed together and played at anytime. Tapi stop point kena jaga, tak salah nak berhenti kat mana2 note tapi ada note yang sedap ada yang kurang kena when we stop at that note. Bergantung pada taste kita la.
So itu utk chord C, dan bila progression chord bertukar ke next chord iaitu F, semua Pentatonic tu pun kena ikut tukar jugak la. So untuk chord F ni, pentatonic yang available ialah D minor, F minor, C minor dan G minor. Same rule applied. Next is G..heheh As your home work, cari 4 pentatonic yang boleh digunakan utk chord G ni.
Boleh la cuba2 praktik kan.. kalau berjaya haha anda sekarang sedang bermain basic jazz (in blues side).
so itu antara application of mode. So "ANTARA" jawapan kepada soalan "mcm mana nak guna mode bagi progression yang ada byk chords" ialah bila chord berpindah, mode pun berubah dan bergantung pada chord yang baru. (not all the time).
so dgn my little knowledge, itu je yang boleh diterangkan. Selebihnya boleh tanya Sdr.Omarjamaluddin tu. Dia otai modes.
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| Erylasia |
| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| omarjamaludin |
| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| gapster |
| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 15 Mar 2005
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hmmm...i don't think modes are scale..
i think it is just the chord progressions..
like C-Am-F-G -->you just use pure C major scale...in my opinion there is no such thing as
"oh i am playing the phrygian mode scale over a C-Am-F-G"
"oh i am playing the mixolydian mode scale over a C-Am-F-G" because it will sound aweful
how modes work is ...take phrygian for example..
we all know E phrygian mode = C major scale
so this means E phrygian mode (the chord progression) = C major scale (the scale you use to goreng)
and later it will end up like this
Chord Progression - Emajor - F major7 - G major - Fmajor7 - E major
this will give a very latin/spanish sound
Scale to Solo - C,D,E,F,G,A,B (C major scale)
well i may be wrong at this..but this way works the best for me
you guys can try it..this was what i wrote before
| gapster wrote: | C Ionian: (C major)
D Dorian: Dm G7 Am
E Phrygian: E Fmaj7 E
F Lydian: F Bmb5 G7
G Mixolydian: G7 Am Dm
A Aeolian: Am Em Am
B Locrian: Bmb5 Em F
above are chord progressions...all of it goreng in C major /A minor Scale |
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| IZZI |
| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Dec 2004
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i like to understand mode as the art of applying scales.
For Example:
If you're playing Cdom7 chord(notes are C,E,Bflat) , the right scale for that is not C major scale but F major scale(why?). The other name for playing F major scale in the key Of C, is C Mixolydian. Means here C Mixolydian scale and F major scale is nothing different.
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| blindriff |
| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 13 Sep 2005
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| izuanhafez wrote: | i like to understand mode as the art of applying scales.
For Example:
If you're playing Cdom7 chord(notes are C,E,Bflat) , the right scale for that is not C major scale but F major scale(why?). The other name for playing F major scale in the key Of C, is C Mixolydian. Means here C Mixolydian scale and F major scale is nothing different. |
I see.... is that meant :
First we need to know the Key for the song
Second by using the key we know the scale
3rd by knowing the scale we know the mode...
??? |
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| IZZI |
| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Dec 2004
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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you're fast leaner la blindriff..and i like to add.. if we want to understand chord better (not memorize), we need to know scales first. If we know scales, its easy to understand why it is 7th, 9th, dominant bla bla bla..
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