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| rg_x2n |
 Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 868
Location: sg buloh, selangor
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duh. i do understand all of those tone thinggy.
i'm just saying, x perlu la nak kluar duit sampai USD2-3000 utk dapatkan sound gempak. a korean made guitar pun sudah memandai. dgn amp yg decent, setting and a lil skills, dapat ar sound best.
the only reason artis pakai rig yg gempak2 tuh sebab diorg ader duit jer. nothing more. nie nak sampai custom made harga sampai rm12K, unreasonable.
and YES, kalo aku kaya, aku akan bli satu custom made. there, i said it. masalahnyer, aku x mampu.
and please dont under estimate korean made guitar. all things happen for a reason. knapa korean made guitar lahir? |
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| Dufresne |
| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 190
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Generally agree with Izzi, but i have my own theory on this, hehe... 
Tone dijari...hmmm...
I 1st heard this term in writing, reading articles particularly on Stevie Ray Vaughn & Ed Van Halen. Im guessing the writer(s) coined the term because they have tried using the same gears these 2 guitarist uses, but couldnt get the sound that they had. Make sense la kan; if u got everything together, everything is the same, but still couldnt sound the same, so bende yg x same ialah jari je la...
I remember a writer once wrote that he cliamed to be at a party, when Ed Van Halen was asked to play some tunes. He picked up an Dano guitar (yg mcm Jimmy Page pakai tu) & then played some VH tunes. I doubt that the writer was drunk while making the observation, but he claims that the tone is there, just like in the album. Tu lg 1 cth "tone jari"...
Moral of the story; U cant copy SRV & Ed Van Halen's tone, bcuz large part of their sound is literally in their hands...
But, as far as i know, guitarist lain x de yg dikaitkan dgn this theory. Which is a good thing; bcuz if the saying "tone is in the fingers" is true & it is a valid & only reason why ppl sound different from one another, susah la mcm tu...i mean, how do we know what kind of tone is in our fingers? Is it good for blues? rock? classical? If u play a lot of stuff, & u sound good at all the stuff u play, how do u know which is the right tone for ur fingers? What if ur tone fingers is only good for bass? Cello? Voilin? (I can go on on this...  )
So...unless u find out that one day u DO have a certain tone in ur fingers, & do not rely on electrical/mechanical tools to create the sound u like, i'd say pakai la gears yg blh dpt kan the sound that u like, hehe...
Cheers...  |
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| rg_x2n |
| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 868
Location: sg buloh, selangor
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korean/china/indo guitars + decent amp + skill/'tone jari' + recording skills (utk recording)= superb tone
NO NEED CUSTOM MADE. CUSTOM MADE IS FOR RICH PEOPLE ONLY! |
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| IZZI |
| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 3447
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| rg_x2n wrote: |
the only reason artis pakai rig yg gempak2 tuh sebab diorg ader duit jer. nothing more. nie nak sampai custom made harga sampai rm12K, unreasonable.
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Selain sebab byk duit, artis pakai gempak2 kadang2 sebab diorang disponsor. So company nak promote product dia kena la bg artist2 yg ada pengaruh ni pakai.
| rg_x2n wrote: |
and please dont under estimate korean made guitar. all things happen for a reason. knapa korean made guitar lahir? |
Sebenarnya custom made ni, kita bayar lebih pada workmanship dan jaminan pada good choice of components. Every details is concerned tak mcm mass production guitar yg dibuat guna mesin. Sekali keluar beribu bijik. Of course quality is not consistant among them.(Yamaha is reported menggunakan mesin yg canggih dgn kecacatan yg minimum utk mass production guitar mereka). As i said before, if we have luck, kita boleh dpt mass production guitar yg qualitinya yg above the standards.
Korean made or China made atau mana2 punya made sebenarnya adalah strategi company utk mengurangkan production kos bagi sesuatu product. Kalau mcm guitar ni, negara yg byk sumber kayu juga menyumbang sebab terbesar as well as labour cost yg rendah. Sebab tu byk company skrg semua nak bukak kilang kat China sebab labour cost yg sgt rendah, population tinggi, negara besar dan kaya sumber semulajadi(tu belum kira government policies, dan kestabilan politik). Jadi kos production rendah, profit margin meningkat dalam masa yg sama harga still competitive dgn pesaing.
Contohnya mcm guitar ni, walau dibuat kat negara mana pun, asalkan ianya under license, mmg tak ada bezanya dari segi atribute yang telah dipaternkan contohnya mcm body or neck patern measurement. Cuma yang berbeza pada pendapat aku ialah quality. Quality ni terbahagi dua, satu quality of material satu lagi quality of workmanship .
Dlm pembuatan guitar, quality of material antaranya kayu la - jenis kayu, kriteria pemilihan kayu, proses pengeringan kayu dll. Mcm guitar fender yg awal2 dulu kayunya dikeringkan dgn cara diperam berbulan2(mungkin lebih setahun) supaya kayu tu kering mengikut suhu persekitaran. Sekarang, kayu dikeringkan dgn teknik Kiln Drying.(macam Oven la), even Premium wood pun pakai Kiln Drying tapi premium wood dibiarkan dlm Oven selama sekurang2nya 3 bulan dgn suhu tertentu supaya kayu tu kering dgn baik.(aku ada terbaca ni masa buat research pasal kayu dulu). Kayu yg betul2 kering akan menghasilkan vibration yg lebih kuat.
Quality of Wormanship ni pada pendapat aku lebih kepada tanggapan org pada negara tertentu. Tanggapan biasanya berasaskan pada reputasi pada product sebelumnya. I believe, bangsa yang maju akan mendapat rating yang tinggi. Sebab tu org kata fender US lebih bagus walaupun ada kajian dibuat, Japanese fender is as good as American. Sapa yg tak percaya boleh refer pada buku kronologi Fender Stratocaster - kulit buku dia warna biru. Dalam tu ada cerita mcm mana Guitar Squire Stratocaster yang pertama Made in Japan tahun 1982 telah dibuat dgn kualiti sebaik American Fender waktu tu dan memaksa Fender US utk mengambil beberapa langkah. Tetapi kita tetap lebih percaya pada buatan US sebab reputasi termasuk bagaimana cara2 bangsa mereka berkerja. Reputasi ni pun memainkan peranan pada harga!
Oi aku dah kira mengarut ni..! chiOw! roger n awt.
p/s: pointnya nak cerita pasal harga jer..
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Gelanggang guitar : http://guitarden.starahead.com |
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| IZZI |
| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 3447
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Dufresne wrote: |
So...unless u find out that one day u DO have a certain tone in ur fingers, & do not rely on electrical/mechanical tools to create the sound u like, i'd say pakai la gears yg blh dpt kan the sound that u like, hehe...
Cheers... |
| IZZI wrote: |
...Ia lebih kepada how you manipulate your guitar tone to satisfy your desired tone!
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wah Kira pendapat kita lebih kurang sama la bro..
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Gelanggang guitar : http://guitarden.starahead.com |
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| Erylasia |
| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Mod Squad
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 3118
Location: Kuala Terengganu
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| IZZI |
| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 3447
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Ala ery, daripada post benda2 yg takde makna.. baik kita bg tau pendapat kita.. kalau kurang betul boleh kita boleh lah upgrade apa yg kita rasa betul selama ni.. baru la menarik sikit "Guitar Talk" ni heheh.. takkan nak post gelak2 dgn HUHUHUU jerr beb..hehehhe
lagi satu, memandangkan ni topic Ibanez,
ni ada satu clip Andy Timmons main dgn Paul Gilbert masa Ibanez Anniversary. So sapa yg belum pernah tgk Andy Timmons, boleh la tgk ye.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjIpa151mf0
p/s: aku dah ada full cd dier heheh...
_________________
Gelanggang guitar : http://guitarden.starahead.com
Last edited by IZZI on Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| rg_x2n |
| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 868
Location: sg buloh, selangor
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| Quote: | | Selain sebab byk duit, artis pakai gempak2 kadang2 sebab diorang disponsor. So company nak promote product dia kena la bg artist2 yg ada pengaruh ni pakai. |
yeah. 123.
20-30% (maybe more)from expensive guitar price tag = name (gibson, ESP, fender...dll)
but still, korean made ibanez is great in its price range. i own one, and i love it.
no offense izuan, i'm not trying to piss you off. i know what you're trying to say. and yes, i know all the 'tone di jari VS guitar tone' stuff.
EVH pun pakai guitar rosak (ibanez destroyer yg dah kene kerat tuh... yes, eddie sendiri ckp sound guitar tuh dah truk) utk recording. xder pun pakai rig masyuk2. sebab EVH tu hebat!
but, its really make me mad when a rich boy say cheap stuff suck. kalo la dier lahir x berduit, tau la mcmana rasanyer! |
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| IZZI |
| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 3447
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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rilex la beb..
ko baca betul2 apa dia kata.. dia tak cerita pasal org kaya atau miskin pun sebenarnya.. dia cerita pasal byk org beli brg disebabkan jenama walaupun ada product yg kurang berjenama tapi kuality lebih baik. Dia kata kalau nak beli yg berjenama ni, yg betul2 baik kalau beli yg custom jer.. thast all..
ko pun beli SX instead of Squier kan..
well.. itulah namanya perbezaan pendapat.. thats good for our growing dude...hehehe
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Gelanggang guitar : http://guitarden.starahead.com |
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| fReqZz |
| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 1351
Location: Mont Kiara
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both of my guitar is chinese made.. still, aku satisfy gak ngan 2 of my axe tuh.. it doesnt help pun if u buy all the custom gadget but in reality, u sucks. the most important thing is the music itself. u can buy all the best tools in the world if u have the money but u cant buy satisfaction. plus, sound n tone is very subjective. isnt it?
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| IZZI |
| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 3447
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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right bro..
usually, our needs and taste change. The things we believe right in the past sometimes is no longer right now but still right to other people.. thats what does subjective mean isnt it..? no wrong and no right.
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Gelanggang guitar : http://guitarden.starahead.com |
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| rg_x2n |
| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 868
Location: sg buloh, selangor
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| IZZI wrote: | rilex la beb..
ko baca betul2 apa dia kata.. dia tak cerita pasal org kaya atau miskin pun sebenarnya.. dia cerita pasal byk org beli brg disebabkan jenama walaupun ada product yg kurang berjenama tapi kuality lebih baik. Dia kata kalau nak beli yg berjenama ni, yg betul2 baik kalau beli yg custom jer.. thats all..
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hmmm.... well, you're right. maybe aku x baca btul2 dgn statement ridzi tuh. aku nie pun jenis yg cepat mengamuk, hahahahaha!
apologize to all.
and yeah, do keep in mind that i'm still young, so dont take all my words seriously, hahaha! now everybody gonna hate me :p thats why i join this forum, get more knowledge.
aku ader gak download ibanez's 100th anniversary tuh. si paul gilbert main lagu dgn lirik yg simple... sama dgn album baru beliau.
respect ar to paul and marty friedman, dah la pakai product japan, siap speak japan! betapa proffesionalnya diorg... |
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| fReqZz |
| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 1351
Location: Mont Kiara
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nobody gonna hate you, sometimes discussion can be nasty.. but as long as u learn something.. thats good! seriously, aku pun byk belajar bila ader forum ni.. i use to think that i can archieve everything without the community.. well, bodoh sombong.. haha..
weh, ko dah dgr paul gilbert nanyi 2 become one.. dlm youtube ader.. haha.. gila la mamat ni..
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| Dufresne |
| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 190
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| rg_x2n wrote: | | EVH pun pakai guitar rosak (ibanez destroyer yg dah kene kerat tuh... yes, eddie sendiri ckp sound guitar tuh dah truk) utk recording. |
Ermmm...actually, gitar 'rosak' yg ko ckp tu, sbb body dia kena kerat, EVH sendri yg buat, bkn org lain. Guess what...one day, he got bored, amik gergaji, terus potong body Ibanez Destroyer tu, so it'd look "different". Lps potong, from sounding like a LP, it now sounds like a "Strat with a humbucker", which he regrets, cuz he was planning to use it live for some songs that he used during recording. So lps potong body gitar tu dia x dpt la guna gitar tu live...giler siut...
Cheers... |
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| cool |
| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 187
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ya,takde sape akn benci ko x2n. beselaa,darah muda.
sume kt cni cool2 je |
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