|
| Ben's Bitches song in Harian Metro |
« View previous topic :: View next topic » |
| Author |
Message
|
| Jeff |
 Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Mod Squad
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 551
Location: Land of the Head Hunters
|
this is an interesting discussion.
Let me state from the beginning im treding on neutral ground here, meaning i support/dont support both sides of the arguments. I do believe in the end it all comes down to context, that an adequate response is warranted when the situation defines it.
First of all, theres an article ive read which argues that, without using expletives, you will not get the proper respect due (written by an american women which ill try to track down for you guys later). A scenario she described was during her morning coffee session in Star Bucks, in which she patiently waited for her turn in line, but being the morning rush hour, ppl kept cutting cues to get to the front of the line. So after a while she politely said "PLEASE GET IN LINE LIKE THE REST OF US, PLEASE". And guess what, they didnt listen. A few more minutes and she instead shouted "GET THE F**K IN LINE!" to which then she had their full undivided attention, and even a degree of obedience. Putting this into context into our current discussion, you can see where theres the similar situation where these particular group arent getting the attention they deserve(or believe they deserve) and sought a more radical approach to acquiring what they desire. This a lot of us can perhaps relate with dealing with how our current society represents itself, where being nice, more often than not, just gets you pushed further in the background.
Then again, azakael has a point in that profanity, whatever the reasons for it, will degrade whatever argument that your pushing through as he had succintly pointed out in the book SHIT. I do believe that book had merit if all that unnecessary name calling, slandering and just pure unadulterated vulgarity had been edited out, thus it had only managed a level similar to 'tasteful smutt'. Perhaps this can be justified as being 'brutally honest' depending on ur point of view. Or I guess u can attribute it to art too, which would open up infinite avenues for interperation.
I think it depends on how we define ourselves, and which group of people we belong to or identify with, and thus act out accordingly. So the 1s hang out with other 1s, the 2s with 2s and so forth. I dont enjoy putting down a certain social group because i do believe they have a right to exist, justified that they are a product of our society that emerged as an honest reponse to our current culture. I do believe they all play a part in helping us move forward as a people. I do agree that beradap and bersopan is a very good way of life, that we have to adopt some civility as a mark of our progression as a human race, but then again, should a dog just bark back at a lion, if it can learn to roar back instead?
I do believe its all about context.
*throw 2 cents* |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
| kalium |
| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 218
|
| Jeff wrote: | this is an interesting discussion.
Let me state from the beginning im treding on neutral ground here, meaning i support/dont support both sides of the arguments. I do believe in the end it all comes down to context, that an adequate response is warranted when the situation defines it.
First of all, theres an article ive read which argues that, without using expletives, you will not get the proper respect due (written by an american women which ill try to track down for you guys later). A scenario she described was during her morning coffee session in Star Bucks, in which she patiently waited for her turn in line, but being the morning rush hour, ppl kept cutting cues to get to the front of the line. So after a while she politely said "PLEASE GET IN LINE LIKE THE REST OF US, PLEASE". And guess what, they didnt listen. A few more minutes and she instead shouted "GET THE F**K IN LINE!" to which then she had their full undivided attention, and even a degree of obedience. Putting this into context into our current discussion, you can see where theres the similar situation where these particular group arent getting the attention they deserve(or believe they deserve) and sought a more radical approach to acquiring what they desire. This a lot of us can perhaps relate with dealing with how our current society represents itself, where being nice, more often than not, just gets you pushed further in the background.
Then again, azakael has a point in that profanity, whatever the reasons for it, will degrade whatever argument that your pushing through as he had succintly pointed out in the book SHIT. I do believe that book had merit if all that unnecessary name calling, slandering and just pure unadulterated vulgarity had been edited out, thus it had only managed a level similar to 'tasteful smutt'. Perhaps this can be justified as being 'brutally honest' depending on ur point of view. Or I guess u can attribute it to art too, which would open up infinite avenues for interperation.
I think it depends on how we define ourselves, and which group of people we belong to or identify with, and thus act out accordingly. So the 1s hang out with other 1s, the 2s with 2s and so forth. I dont enjoy putting down a certain social group because i do believe they have a right to exist, justified that they are a product of our society that emerged as an honest reponse to our current culture. I do believe they all play a part in helping us move forward as a people. I do agree that beradap and bersopan is a very good way of life, that we have to adopt some civility as a mark of our progression as a human race, but then again, should a dog just bark back at a lion, if it can learn to roar back instead?
I do believe its all about context.
*throw 2 cents* |
That's a great example Jeff. During the black metal raid at Paul's Place, I'd asked politely at Brickfields station to speak to an officer in charge. I was turned down.
Later, activist Ms Eli Wong came by, asked politely, was turned down, composed herself and YELLED, "Don't F*CK around with me or (the NGO she was representing) - which got her some attention.
Now, of course, the above examples have nothing to do with Ben's Bitches usage of profanity in their songs. The above was a REAL LIFE situation. Ben's Bitches work is art.
Which brings me to the following fall out issue that seems to have caused people some confusion:
The separation between the ART and the ARTIST.
A good artist reacts to his surroundings, internalizes the experience then externalizes it based on his reaction.
And these days, there's a lot of issues in Malaysian society which would provoke a rather violent reaction.
If you assume the artist's reality is based on his art:
BB use explicit language in their art. Hence, they swear like sailors and are immoral heathens from suspect families, even off stage - I've yet to see Ben or CK using profanity in front of clients or my family.
Following that logic:
Edgar Allan Poe and Stephen King are probably immoral homicidal killers who periodically worship the devil.
There is a well defined line between criticizing BB's ART and an AD HOMINEM attack - which I observed has been crossed by Adzakael due to an inability to separate between the two. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| cklife |
| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 62
|
| adzakael wrote: | oil rig?no
but that does not mean i did not travel much.
sepanjang aku travel dan bermastautin dr barat ke Utara pastu ke Timur then ke tempat beribu-ribu batu jauhnya,dr duduk sama2 buruh Indonesia dan Bangladesh sampai bermesyuarat dng org2 bisnes dan decisionmakers, org yg guna coarse language tersangat la sikit percentagenye.yang selalu pakai pun adelah org muda sesama org muda shj,even org tua sesama sebaya mereka amat jarang guna coarse language.
orang yg aku jumpa sll guna coarse language tend to be orang yg mmg kurang adab sopan dr segala segi.dari situ pun bole nampak apekah paksi kehidupan org tersebut.Tambah lagi kalu kenal famili org tu,dah bole tau camne dan dari mane die dpt perkataan2 tersebut.
aku malas nak kaitkan dgn agama dlm konteks ni,tp terus terang aku ckp org yg kehidupannye mmg berpaksikan agama dan moral serta adab sopan mmg jarang mencarut. Sll aku nampak org bole terima lagi kemarahan org lain tp bile org tu marah disertai dgn carutan,itu yg buat keadaan jd lagi tegang.So,aku nampak dah kenapa kite diajar utk menjaga tutur bicara ketika berkomunikasi.
back to the perkara yg aku tak abis cerita lagi,kite bole je nak cerita pasal seks,dadah,setan,politik,cinta dan lain2 lagi,tp bahasa yg digunapakai hendaklah beradab agar tidak menimbulkan amarah pd pihak lain.Ini dikhuatiri mesej tak sampai disebabkan dibayangi bahasa yg kurang ajar.Contohnye novel SHIT,walopun ia kritik keadaan politik masa itu tp mesejnye tak sampai 100% krn dibayangi bahasa kurang sopan.Ia hanya hidup berlandaskan gimik,bukan isi.
M. Nasir tak perlu menggunakan bahasa carutan utk mencipta kontroversi dan menyampaikan mesej. Lirik2 ciptaannya punya kualiti. Bahasa yg digunapakai dikira tinggi dan masih boleh diterima oleh bnyk pihak (which lead back to the issue of elitism raised by grayheadphones). Die tak perlu merendahkan taraf dirinye utk menyedarkan mana2 pihak yg dituju. |
Saudara mungkin tidak memahami istilah istilah yang telah dihujahkan dalam mesej yang lalu. Semenjak kebelakangan ini, saya berasa bingung dengan tajuk yang menyerikkan saya. Maka kami, sebagai rakyat Malaysia yang bangga dan beradab; malah berpendidikan tinggi, perlulah dicontohi.
Maka, contohi lah saya, saudara. Kerana saya rakyat Malaysia yang beradab dan berpendidikan tinggi.
Kalau difahami dari hujah hujah saudara, saya dapat mengagakan saudara kerja di bidang yang ada berkaitan dengan buruh Bangladeshi. Maka, ayat yang lucah sering digunakan. Maka, saudara pun kerap kali menyampaikan ayat seperti itu. Itu adalah perkara yang biasa. Kerana kita manusia. Perlu menyampai ayat dari sudut sudut yang dikenali.
Adab sebenarnya adalah ayat yang dipendekkan dari perkataan adabi. Yang bermaksud 'perisa kari yang paling best'.
Lucah sebenarnya ayat sanskrit yang bermaksud 'Menyampaikan mesej untuk menonjolkan kehebatan diri'.
Lebih lucah, lebih menakjubkan.
Sering kali orang dikaitkan dengan ayat lucah, mesti memikirkan perkara yang merangkupi seks,rogol, dan onani. Itu hanyalah oleh orang yang 'mengorientasikan diri sendiri untuk berfikir kotor'.
Kalau saudara cakap perkataan seperti 'Puki'. Saudara tidak memikirkan kulit atau bulu, saudara sebenarnya tidak lucah.
Maka demikian sajalah karangan Bahasa Melayu saya untuk kali ini. Kerana kamus BM-English yang berada di tepi meja saya sudah puas saya memantaui sehingga mendengar jeritan dari kamus iaitu "Sudah lar hang, tulis English sajalah"
Sekian Terima Kasih. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| kalium |
| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 218
|
OK. Here's my final thought.
If BB weren't pissing off conservatives, then you wouldn't be doing your job right. Why apologize and justify?
You want to be punks, right?
So what if some people hate you and think you're tak beradab or immoral heathen bastards?
You're frikkin' punks, not a frikkin' boy band. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| cklife |
| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 62
|
I'm not apologizing for the songs.
I'm berbalas pantun with Adzakael. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| danger3s |
| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 267
Location: Kuantan
|
I see BB's work as a work of art, simplistic but with enough content to give a broad picture of what they're growing up with. When I listen to music and the lyrics, I will seldom judge the artist, but rather see it in the perspective of an outsider.
BB's made a non-literature history about the environment they're living in, of what people around them are thinking and doing, on their own point of view. But certainly that doesn't include all of us, thus won't sound idealistic or realistic to everyone. It is more accurate to define their work as a 'story' rather than a message. It is honest and well-spoken in its own right way.
FWIW, say 30 years from now Malaysia has finally woke up and became developed country and ideally everyone are more enlightened and educated, the historians will look back through the files, audio, videos to search for facts and figures, and BB's picturing of old Malaysians will be one of the answer to why we're already 30 years too late!
All and all, their works are maybe not as educational or full of messages, but certainly a VALUABLE piece of art. If you like history, or reads satire, and have an open mind i.e you don't necessarily see things differently but rather "broader", then you find something to ponder on their lyrics, otherwise just stick to the Astro and Reader's Digest.
Anyway BB keep up your good work, I'd love to know your thoughts about the Rempit or Mangga magazine or the funny Ayah Pin issues lol!
_________________
As books are not written for professional writers,as paintings are not painted for professional painters, so music is not made for professional musicians. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| cklife |
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 62
|
Dude, you totally rock!
Thanks for the comments. It means a lot. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| totziens |
| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 1210
Location: Petaling Kurang Berjaya
|
I personally think that Mamak Conspiracy is a very meaningful album comparing to National Disservice - a lot of the songs are about the stupid things that have been going on in this country that not many people dares to criticise. I have to admit that Ben's Bitches have the guts. I hope you won't end up being a victim of ISA - you can consider me as an anti-ISA person.
The simple song, Cialat, turned up very meaningful to me one day when I had a tough time from the office. I worked hard during peak period but when the boss did not assign me any task for the past few months, during year end performance review, I was called a non-contributor. It's definitely not fair for me because my boss was the one did not assign me anything even I had asked about it. Reaching home, I turned on Ben's Bitches album...the song, Cialat, almost made me cry on the spot. It's avery meaningful simple song that could easily relate to my lousy day job.
I salute Ben's Bitches for writing that song..... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| cklife |
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 62
|
thanks siang...
What a tough world to live in yeah?
Have to get by doing work, hence, we always lean on something else at the other time, music became the tool for tension releases.
Thanks for listening man.. U simply rock too. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
