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| spiderfingers |
 Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: Adapter question |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 119
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I have an ultimax AD-MW1200S regulated switching power adapter switchable from 3 to 12 volts and polarity.
I tested with multimeter, gives out voltage at 9.3 with/without load fine.
But when I plug in to some pedals, in bypass mode got a buzzing noise when I turn my amp volume/tone/gain full.
I connect directly to amp or use battery on the pedal, no such problems.
I thought regulated adapters are supposed to be noiseless?
The adapter is confirmed regulated but i am not sure if it's filtered.
I am going to buy a new adapter tomorrow but I am not sure if I will end up again with a noisy regulated adapter.
Yes, even regulated adapters are noisy and I have digital multimeters to verify they're regulated adapters since their voltage with/without load doesn't change.
This is really only noticeable when I turn my amp settings max. Sometimes when I touch the pedal's screw to the screw on the amp that is on the metal plate body, the buzz goes away.
Then using the same adapter on a ms-4 marshall mini amp, it buzzes like mad when everything is turned to maximum, but when using boss psa230 adapter, very quiet.
I wonder if regulated adapters are what they're all cut out to be, as I've read that regulated transformerless adapters have issues related to the noise i experienced and also regulated does NOT mean filtered... your device may function fine but it'll still be noisy.....
I have a regulated Winstar adapter (which I just totally destroyed by accident today) which is less noisy than the ultimax.
Macam mana mahu cari regulated adapter yang betul betul senyap ?
I heard if their milliamps is very high, it is even more noisy.....regardless if they're regulated or not... |
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| browndog2woof |
| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| one other thing, is delay pedal connected to dc chain? try using separate power (regulated) for delay if any.. this might help bro. |
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| spiderfingers |
| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:00 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2008
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| browndog2woof wrote: | | one other thing, is delay pedal connected to dc chain? try using separate power (regulated) for delay if any.. this might help bro. |
no delay pedal, just distortion and EQ.
But my tests are only with 1 pedal at a time.
Noise is audible when amp tone/gain/volume is max.
PC monitor is turned off. Guitar is humbucker type.
The pedal IS isolated power. |
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| ultraman_cosmo |
| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
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Location: Mines resort city
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Adpter adalah transformer. Tranformer ne adalah selenoid bergulong pada mangnet. Acually consep yg sama macam pickup guitar. So adalah pekara yg logic jika adapter juga ada humming or noise macam single coil pickup vs canceling humbuker.
Nak terangkan sikit dari mana datang noise adaptor walo pun aku tak pasti nak menerangkan dari mana.
HUM freq atau 60 cycle freq biasanya belaku pada adapter ACDC sama da regulated or non-regulater. Biasanya ia berlaku disebabkan leakage AC dari awal source. As u know hum adalah freq rendah 60hz tapi sebenarnya bukan freq tu ajer yg keluar. Akan kuar sekali bersa harmonic nya, dari 60hz keluar 120hz dan 180hz dan seteusnya. Gabungan harmonic freq hz tersebut maka kita dengar dan panggil sebagai noise.
Adapter it self
Kebiasaannya kita ada hum filter utk setiap adapter, hum filter yg bagus biasa membezakan harga adapter tersebut. Tapi utk aplication bukan audio, diorang tak kisah pasal huming adapter ne, aper yg penting hanya regulated dan stable DC current. Adaptor biasanya direka utk match output penerimanya. Maksudnya adapter tu kena lah bersesuaian dengan satu pedal nyer powersupply. Ada kala kita kena modify powersupply nyer circuit to match the adapter. Biasanya kita lakukan utk pedal vintage ACA or battery only FUZZ. Even, utk tube amp pun kita guna konsep yg sama, tranformer tube amp tu lah adapter besar. dan kita kena build power supply yg sesuai dan hum cenceling supaya amp tu tak bunyi humming macam nak meletup.
AC source
As we know, hum datang dari source AC, maksudnya current rumah kita. KAlo AC rumah kita memang ada leakage, maybe ada AC cap dah lunyai kat main board kerr. ataupun load terlalu banyak. Kemungkinan kita hadapi noise pada adapter tu tinggi. walopun adapter tu terkenal dengan super duper low noise. So ada baiknya kita invast skit utk power stabilazer dengan proper grounding circuit. AC plug umah > power stabilazer > adapter > effect.
- everytime istri gua pakai mesin basuh, maka akan adalah hum pada effect gua... citttt.
Effect dircuit.
Setiap pedal ada power supply circuit nya tersendiri, mean lain pedal lain circuit power-supplynya. So kebanyakan pedal ada adapter nya tersendiri utk match the pedal power supply nyer circuit. maybe korang biasa dengan holy grail yg akan noise bila bersama adapter lain. Dan gitu juga line6 nyer pedal yg biasanya tak suka adapter lain. Dari pemerhatian gua, pedal dengan digital prosesing mempunyai design powersupply yg senang diserang bebenda noise ne. ini disebabkan kebiasannya power supply jenis ne ada banyak regulated chip yg di gunakan utk bagi voltage dan current yg tepat kepada chip digital. Design ne adalah utk protect chip digital supaya tak terbakar kalo ada current berlebihan. Ada kemungkinan adapter tak sesuai dengan pedal effect guitar.
| Quote: | | I heard if their milliamps is very high, it is even more noisy.....regardless if they're regulated or not... |
- 1500mA max
- lebih dari tu power supply pedal takan boleh handle.
- kalo pedal boss maybe lebih kuat, kena pedal digital brand lain, boleg fried chip dalam tu.
- Gua masih stay kepada Winstar adapter.
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| spiderfingers |
| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 119
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Gua pun ada winstar adapter tapi sudah hancus semalam sebab gua screw it up while trying to mod the cable. 
Never mind but it's still not as quiet as boss adapters.
As far as I know, there're a few types of regulated adapters.
1 is circuit board built on top of a transformer based to regulate the supply, just like the Boss PSA series and also Winstar. These are some sort of hybrids.
the other one is transformerless design, very light, like the ultimax adapter i have and also i believe 1-spot is like this also, no transformer inside. The weight is very light.
I think transformer based regulated hybrids could be more stable. |
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| browndog2woof |
| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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can't keep up reply.. keyboard f**k up..
1) get a power conditioner la kalau teruk sangat
2) tengkorak aka ayam always have these prob.. cable ka, adapter ka.. reading on adapter tak betul sangat la selalu..
snippets a little..
(just bought a teletron stepdown today at JP aka jalan pasar, if i'm not being to cautious enough, sure my jap rack kaput oredi. i told the asshole that i wanted a 100v ac, 3 pin. he kept on saying, 110 pon bole.. i insist on a 100v stepdown. he brought one with a smile... ha, ini ada.. a two pin one, i rejected. then only he put some effort getting me another, but this time, a 3 pin unit. seems to look okay. i took a multitester and measure... pergh! written CLEARLY 100v, but 110 when measured. i told him to get another one, he said, semua pon sama la... i took the display unit and measure.. now it's a REAL 100v.. he smiled and said.. aa, ya la...) what will happen to me if i listened to him? OMG!
3) grounding rumah
4) grounding amp
aku have less prob over this matter.. luck maybe? hmmm..
guitar - standard us strat, all standard
amp - vintage tube amp
location - away from pc monitors, fluorescent lights
cables - planet wave 2, george L patches
pedal or effect - jap rack effect with 3 pin 100v power in with teletron (chicken x brand also) stepdown and a boss pedal with a psa power supply 2 pin. no power conditioner or power surge protection.. (bahaya ni..)
extension plug point - beli kat tesco 5 gang, shared with a canon printer, motorola charger, infinity reference standard equalizer, sanyo cordless phone and 1 still available...
plugpoint - standard CF approved. properly grounded i guess.
me - sitting on a roller stool
so far, no problem. however, i do have one plug point at home that buzz and spikes like shit.. use la whatever branded adapter like gucci, lois vutton, calvin klein, etc etc. regulated adapter or transformer, still full of those unwanted noise! i don't use it.. that's the best thing to do.. well, i do have options right?
i think most of us are moreless the same like what i'm doing.. just tell me where should go wrong and invites the buzz?
try one by one and with a more trusting and reliable adapter from the makers of pedals or musical instruments. they have vast of experience about noise. i hope this will help...
Last edited by browndog2woof on Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:35 am; edited 2 times in total |
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| spiderfingers |
| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 119
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OK bro I sudah solve my noise problem.
I beli adapter baru, ibanez AC109. No prints on whether it's regulated or not, most think it isn't but I brought my multimeter to test and found it's regulated. I wanted to get the Teletran 9v which is said to be regulated but later I test multimeter, dia punya current is 14 volt without load. Buatan Malaysia. Gua terkejut. Nasib baik tak beli nanti hancus gua punya gear.
It is 900ma but I don't need that much so i settled for the 200ma ac109 but regulated (though not marked).
Test kat rumah, with/without load constant 8.96 volts dan very very sangat sangat QUIET and sedap.... NO buzz, NO HUMM... chain pedals together also no noise when I crank my amp volume/gain/tone up max in bypass mode compared to the Winstar or Ultimax 'regulated' adapters.
I think it's best to buy adapters BUILT for audio use. Those generic 'regulated' ones do not have proper filters, so even if they're giving out constant dc voltage but the noise will still be there.
My AC power outlet is not directly from the wall socket. It's behind a UPS that also has a voltage regulator. Computer pun share the same voltage regulator with my adapter but tiada bising lah.
Maybe you can try investing in a cheap UPS for your amps/adapter/gears?
Those UPS for PC maybe can use... |
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| ultraman_cosmo |
| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
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Location: Mines resort city
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ibanez AC109, menarik, thank for sharing.
- mana beli and how much yaaa.
- Input: 100-240V, 50/60Hz
- Output: 9.0 Volts, 200 mA
Acually, memang tak dinafikan, adapter band pedal memang sesuai utk pedalnya. Cuma kengkadang ada yg tak tahan macam boss punya adaptor. Tapi the boss that came with BCB60 memang tahan.
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| browndog2woof |
| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| spiderfingers wrote: |
Maybe you can try investing in a cheap UPS for your amps/adapter/gears?
Those UPS for PC maybe can use... |
aku memang hunting this one or the similiar brand.. racking jap aku takut fragile la.. pedals ni ada degil gak.. tahan lasak... |
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| ultraman_cosmo |
| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Location: Mines resort city
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Ya, gua stuju Back-UPS pun terbaik juga, tak la terkezuk semua electronik bila letrik putus.
- Aku pun tengah study mana yg terbaik.
- cuma utk tube amp tu gua tak pasti mana UPS yg larat nak supply cukup AC.
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And Now all jazz. |
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| spiderfingers |
| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 119
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i bought my ibanez ac109uk from local shop here for rm 55 after discount but I think it's really 40 ringgit worth only, but still, 2x cheaper than original boss psa series.
Boleh power my digitech bad monkey, boss ds-1, behringer pedals no problem. Just beware of digital pedals that suck up more than 200ma.
In KL i think bentley ada jual, before discount rm 60++ cuba bargain sikit.
As for UPS, I am using rightpower, under 120 ringgit i think. It's malaysian made brand but I think there're other better ones out there. I bought primarily for the computer but since the amp also nearby, semua cucuk masuk rightpower ups.
This will also save your adapter from hancus when power not steady.
To measure AC load just buy a digital multimeter like i did then set to ac 600v maximum measurement on fused input of the multimeter, kasi cucuk itu pin hitam/merah dalam socket. |
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| browndog2woof |
| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:16 am Post subject: |
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[As for UPS, I am using rightpower, under 120 ringgit i think. It's malaysian made brand but I think there're other better ones out there. I bought primarily for the computer but since the amp also nearby, semua cucuk masuk rightpower ups.[/quote]
aku cari kat used computer store atau garage sale.. cheaper bro.. also berlambak2 adapters ko bole jumpa. murah bro... jb mesti ada banyak kan.. looks does not matter man.. |
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| keysersoze |
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 142
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| browndog2woof wrote: | | [As for UPS, I am using rightpower, under 120 ringgit i think. It's malaysian made brand but I think there're other better ones out there. I bought primarily for the computer but since the amp also nearby, semua cucuk masuk rightpower ups. |
aku cari kat used computer store atau garage sale.. cheaper bro.. also berlambak2 adapters ko bole jumpa. murah bro... jb mesti ada banyak kan.. looks does not matter man..[/quote]
bagus ke pakai ups tu? ade beza ke kalo tak pakai?
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| ultraman_cosmo |
| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | bagus ke pakai ups tu? ade beza ke kalo tak pakai? |
- current kat umah, bila bertambah load maka turun naik la dia punya current.
- macam bila pakai heater/cerek, tetiba jer lampo dim skit.
- UPS ne biasanya ada circuit stabilazer kat dalam.
- kalo tetiba black out, akan ada high voltage before semua padam, benda ne la boleh burn electronik componen.
- so kalo pakai ups, ada black out selamat skit. DAn current supply sentisa sama tarak naik or turun dan barang electrik pun selamat.
- maca pc ne, memang tak bagus kalo kita matikan mengejut.
- kalo kita pakai midi device, kalo tengah programe or write or update firmware, black out, trus tak boleh jalan...
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